Pleyel Thank-You's (Page 1 of 2)

Yes I just noticed this too, the demo sounds gorgeous, can't wait to try it myself, thankyou!

I'm gonna check it right now.

Yoouuupieee....    :-)

The Pleyel sounds great. Offers a wide range of sounds.

A very nice addition. What next for the KIViR cultural project?
www.pianoteq.com/kivir.

Has this addition made it harder for Modartt to charge for future pianos? What is the criteria for producing a free piano verses a fee paying one?

I'm not complaining though, I look forward to the next addition, and I'm very thankful for a great service.

Well done Modartt!

Clavichord would be nice!

Also a pianet.

Thank you Pianoteq!

I have seen the future of a professional piano software company whose products consumers gladly buy and don't steal, that offers ongoing value and continuously gives pleasant surprises to its loyal customers and that future is: Modartt!

Gorgeous instrument. Thank you :-)

How about Pianoteq 4? The addons just keep on pouring out...

Good that suggestions are welcome.

Maybe this is a bit crazy but have you thought about recreating a nice historical orchestrion? "What's and orchestrion??" I hear you all cry.. Well, take a look at this site..

http://www.pianola.org/history/history_orchestrions.cfm

or type orchestrion into You Tube to hear one..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm2uvxqbUEc

I only suggest this because apart from modelling virtual drum kits, Modartt have already done many of the elements involved in creating an orchestrion. Of course, what sort of controlling hardware you might need to get everything working I can't imagine, but since Pianoteq already comes with a "digital piano roll" built in (midi file playback) then I can see how the software could come together.

Ok, mad suggestion, but fun...

A big thank you from here allso.
The Pleyel sounds really great !

When i first bought Pianoteq (i was the very first costumer) :-) i couldn't even imagine all these beatifull instruments this would get me over time.

Thanks again
Ole

Wonderful. The sound has real charm and "atmosphere". The attack has some bite to it, much like the K1, which I like.

Just another +1 of thanks from me. This is a great little piano, so fun to much around with - I've actually been [mis]using it as a rock-piano replacement when improvising with it this evening.

So thankyou again
Pete.

Tell me about it, I check the site every day!

Hello All,

I have nothing new to add to the excellent reviews and feelings about the Pleyel add-on that hasn't already been stated.  I would like to chime in and say what a pleasure it is to play this piano; one of the best compliments I can say about the Pleyel is that it is "very musical" sounding and it feels wonderful under one's fingers.

Many, many thanks to Philippe, Niclas, Julien and the rest of the Modartt team for making this instrument available to us.

Happy Holidays to all,

Joe

Don, it's not about (superficial) settings but inherent qualities of the model like the "dirty" (in lack of a better term) punch of the Pleyel (of which also the Bechstein has some).

I'd like to be able to add just a bit of that inherent punch to the C3. I haven't tried layering two models yet; that might be a workaround until model morphing is introduced (v4? Come on Modartt! ).

I love and play the french and italian harpsichord that we already have but I think a clavichord is a bit restrictive.

I'm not too fond of flemish harpsichords (a bit too nasal) but here is a very nice portuguese instrument, very resonant, that would be a good addition (if you can find one).

Antunes 1785.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnR-eKQM...re=related

It seems there is one in Lisbon :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joaquim_Jos%C3%A9_Antunes

But I guess this is the copy used in recordings:
http://www.ugocasiglia.it/instruments.htm

Honestly I don't know how tuning is technically implemented in pianoteq but in real acoustic piano's world is absolutely normal. Each piano (even same brand, same model) has to be tuned by ear listening to beats according to the temperament you choose. This is due to inharmonicity of strings; different lenght, different string manufacturing, strike point and alike cause a little freq shifting as big as you increase in partials. So the first harmonic it's not exactly two times the fundamental but something less or something more. A good piano tuner mixes experience, good ear and good taste to obtain a beautiful sounding instrument in a big compromise. That's why you cannot tune a piano with an electronic tuner but you need a human
Said that (maybe Guillaume can correct me or be more precise as I'm not a piano tuner) I could say that it seems a good sign rather than a problem.
Now I'm curious to try your experience

Hello All,

Regarding inharmonicities of different pianos:

I completely agree with Philippe and Etto that K1 and the Pleyel have completely different inharmonicities from one another.  One reason for this change is that the nominal length of the K1 is 2.7 metres (9') and the Pleyel is a comparatively shorter 1.6 metres (5.3').

In addition, the slight changes I made to the K1's following four parameters might be slight -- in themselves -- but apparently they have resulted in large overall changes in perceived tuning when frozen and grafted onto the Pleyel without accounting for great differences in nominal string length: 

1) changes of detuning per note -- when I customized my own stretching curve, based on personal hands-on experience tuning real acoustic 9' concert grands;
2) varying unison width per note (less at low end, slightly more in middle two octaves where people play most of the time, and then much higher in the upper 1/3 to 1/4 of the keyboard where it is physically harder to tune the unisons);
3) slightly randomizing the strike point of each note (whose effect is to alter the percentages of various overtones heard by the ear); and even
4) slightly modifying the damper characteristics will change the most prominently heard overtone when notes are released.

Stated in a different way than in the opening paragraph, the Pleyel's longest strings are less than 60% of the K1's longest strings -- unless you try modifying the Pleyel's length.

String length?  Ahhhh!  You might experiment (even in the Pianoteq Standard version) with increasing the Pleyel's string length to 2.6 meters or greater.  This one change in length parameter might reduce the tuning anomalies you are perceiving.  I haven't tried modifying the Pleyel's overall length, but it's worth a try.

Cheers,

Joe

I see Modart don't get tired of overcome themselves, creating better an better instruments.
Well done Philippe !!!  Everyone liked the Pleyel add-on.

I have just a question, not a complain at all, but just a characteristic, that certainly is part of the original pleyel piano used as reference, and probably partially responsible for the charm of this model.

Have you noticed that the Pleyel Long have the second octave quite less bright (like a bit fog) than the first and the hird octave ?

The bass get a "more variable" feeling, don't you agree?

I don't think we will gonna find any other company doing such non-profit artistic endeavor work as the KIViR projet.

Hello berghs.kedjan,

I had a chance to listen to your YouTube video --- very inspired playing on your part!  If I had an observation to make, I might suggest that you continue starting the piece in the key of F major, but you might consider modulating the key tonality upward to G Major and then possibly A-flat or A Major, because five minutes' worth of playing in the same key begs to have one or more keychanges in any given piece.

In the end, I would NOT scrap the video due to uneven microtuning!  Actually, the degree of mistuning is far, far less than what is commonly heard in even nicely-maintained pianos experienced in public venues throughout all parts of the world.  [EDIT: We Pianoteq users may be aware of this mistuning, because it has been pointed out; the average uninformed listener will probably not notice the degree of mistuning present in the Campanella fxp from K1 that has been frozen and then grafted into a Pleyel fxp.]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I have a possible explanation of what's happening with the Pleyel's microtuning adjustments in the fxp used in this performance:

In the video, when you listen to the F note (just above Middle C) alone, it sounds fine; by that, I mean to say that the F-note unison strings' tunings are NOT excessive enough to cause the pitch to warble on its own as a single note being sounded.  Likewise, Middle C, and the A just below Middle C each sound fine and in tune -- when they are played separately -- but their individual harmonic series tend to intermodulate destructively, when the three notes are played simultaneously as in an the A-C-F inversion of the F major chord featured prominently in this video. 

Restated, the warbling sound you hear in the A-C-F f major chord, and on the Bb-D-F b-flat major chord is the result of the individual notes' harmonics reacting unfavorably (in the form of alternating constructive- and destructive soundwave interference) with each other, causing alternate experiences of louder- and softer heard harmonics, perceived in the form of vibrato or tremolo cycling at the rate of approximately 2 to 4 times per second.   Similarly, when the F above middle C is sounded with the note F, some two octaves lower, one hears the pseudo-vibrato. *

Now, before anyone jumps to the wrong conclusion that the wah-wah tremolo is engaged -- it is surely NOT engaged in this fxp.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

So, where does one go from here, to correct the perceived mis-tuning anomalies?

Owners of the PRO version may wish to reduce the amount of random detuning [EDIT: of my Campanella fxp for K1 that was frozen and grafted to Pleyel] in the two or three middle octaves of the keyboard.  Recall that I deliberately de-tuned this area, in order to simulate the way that heavily-played/worn pianos tend to go out of tune in this region.  As it sounds in the Pleyel version, the amount of detuning [EDIT: originally designed for the nominally 9' / 2.7 meter K1] does not make a one-for-one fit for the length- and tonal characteristics of this particular piano! 

Please remember that longer pianos have lesser inherent inharmonicity; in contrast, much shorter pianos (in this case, some 3+ feet shorter), have strikingly different inharmonicity characteristics, both in the amount of inharmonicity AND the distribution of inharmonicity characteristics across the entire 88-note keyboard.

If I were to encounter this mis-tuning in the Pleyel, that specifically occurs upon trying to graft a K1 fxp onto the Pleyel with zero modifications, I would reduce the level of purposeful detuning, and make up for the slight amounts of "real world imperfection", by compensating for more variability in hammer hardness, note-by-note decay rates, strike points (to accentuate / de-accentuate note-to-note differences in resulting prominent harmonics), damper position and damper decay times. 

All of the above suggestions come at the personal experience of tuning hundreds-to-thousands of pianos over the past 40+ years.

Hopefully, this information will help shed some light on this elusive condition, even if it takes repeated readings to fully comprehend its content.

*  When two F notes are played together, two octaves apart, and you hear that characteristic warbling sound (about two or four cycles per second), this is an indication that the Pleyel's inharmonicity has NOT been adequately addressed with the K1 fxp's tuning characteristics.  In other words, "the notes are not in tune with each other!" 

I encounter this condition with numerous freshly tuned pianos that the technicians had slavishly used a strobotuner to tune the fundamental frequency of two different notes, two octaves apart -- but their overtones do not blend in a pleasing way.  It's almost as if a deaf Beethoven has tuned the piano, using ONLY the fundamental frequency as the pitch being tuned between two note F's on a short piano!

This is a condition that any good piano tuner would remedy while tuning a given piano by listening to match overtones of various octaves' corresponding notes;  it is also a negative condition that necessarily occurs when one tunes an fxp for a 9' piano, and then attempts to "graft" the same tuning characteristic onto the very different amount- and distribution of inharmonicity characteristics across the keyboard of a nominally 5'4" long piano.

Cheers,

Joe

Are you talking Pleyel in general? I'd agree on that. That openness is lacking a bit in the C3 model (though that in turn is more balanced, but also less lively).

Volume yes, Detune no!

Another ++++ for Pleyel! Thanks! Using it all the time, it's beautiful and sounds great.

Just give us a good upgrade price to version 4 when it comes out and you'll have me as a customer for life. Well, for the foreseeable future

Been playing boogie woogie, bach, chopin, mozart on this piano, and love it more and more.

Oops… Didn't know that
Thanks for explaining!