Topic by nothingbutblues

  • Avatar
  • nothingbutblues
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 25-08-2010
  • Posts: 33

Topic: A first test recording (Steely Dan's "Rose Darling")

Hello,

As this is my first post to this forum, let me just start out by saying how thrilled I am to have found out about the Pianoteq software. It was only about a week ago my friend told me about it, and I decided to buy it right away. So far so good!

Having said that, I am sure there are many things I should keep in mind when it comes to changing my playing style. After getting familiar with the basics I decided to make a very quick recording, in order to hopefully get some fundamental pointers from the rest of you on what I should keep in mind.

So. This is a quick recording of Steely Dan’s “Rose Darling”, played with a Korg SP250 digital piano, using the “C3 variation 1” preset in Pianoteq Play. I had the velocity curve set to the preset for a very fast keyboard.

https://sites.google.com/site/pianodemo...arling.mp3

Any input would be MUCH appreciated!

Warm regards,
A.

Reply by jcfelice88keys

  • Avatar
  • jcfelice88keys
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-09-2008
  • Posts: 1,149

Re: A first test recording (Steely Dan's "Rose Darling")

Hello A.

You will find the members of this forum are always glad to welcome a new member to its ranks.  You will also find that Pianoteq is an immensely "musical" piece of software.

I attempted to download your mp3 file, but was unable to do so.  Would you mind re-posting the file, please, so that we may offer commentary?

Cheers,

Joe  <jcfelice88keys>

Reply by skip

  • Avatar
  • skip
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Sydney, Australia
  • Registered: 21-12-2007
  • Posts: 1,059

Re: A first test recording (Steely Dan's "Rose Darling")

Worked for me and I'm just using a smartphone too.;)

Very pretty - thanks!

Greg.

Reply by Jake Johnson

  • Avatar
  • Jake Johnson
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Atlanta
  • Registered: 04-05-2007
  • Posts: 4,501

Re: A first test recording (Steely Dan's "Rose Darling")

The link worked fine here, although I needed a second to see how to access the file.

I like the last half, I hope you don't mind my saying, more than the first. The softer playing seemed to produce a more natural timbre. Maybe it's your velocity curve, or my hearing...

Last edited by Jake Johnson (27-08-2010 13:23)

Reply by jcfelice88keys

  • Avatar
  • jcfelice88keys
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-09-2008
  • Posts: 1,149

Re: A first test recording (Steely Dan's "Rose Darling")

Hello A,

Thank you for providing the second link to your performance.

I listened to your Rose recording several times; there is some nice playing going on.

I would agree with Jake that the velocity curve makes your playing sound a little "tame".  Stated another way, Pianoteq (combined with your playing) is capable of expressing very subtle tonal and volume changes under one's fingers.

I hope you understand this is meant to be constructive commentary, rather than a negative complaint  --  actually, your playing is quite fine.

Listen to your opening bars, where the following chordal pattern is:

C --> d min --> C --> down to F --> up to a minor

As a pianist, in the opening measures, I would try to get a little louder as the music progresses from C major to d minor, and then let off a little when the tonality returns to C major.  Then when it drops down to F major, get a little softer, but make some kind of dynamic (and tonal) change when F major goes up to a minor.

Regarding your left hand notes ... this arrangement has your left hand playing repeated series of four notes (example:  c, g, higher c, back to g).
Rather than playing the first note louder, I would concentrate on making the last three notes of each group ... softer.

If I hear you say, "well I AM playing those notes softer, but the piano doesn't make them sound softer" ... then the dynamics slider might be set a little higher to allow you to differentiate the notes' loudnesses via your touch.


Overall, a very nice performance.  Since you are still new to Pianoteq, you will figure out how to adjust the velocity curve to suit YOUR playing to maximize you inner expressions in your music.

Cheers,

Joe

Reply by jcfelice88keys

  • Avatar
  • jcfelice88keys
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-09-2008
  • Posts: 1,149

Re: A first test recording (Steely Dan's "Rose Darling")

nothingbutblues wrote:

Joe:

I thought I should put up another song I recorded at the same time as the first one. This is a short cover of “I Will” by The Beatles. Any thoughts about my pedal use in this sample?

http://sites.google.com/site/pianodemos/files


Warm regar[d]s,

A.

Hello A,

Please feel free to use your full first name, if you like .... you are among friends here.

Regarding your pedaling, I think you did a fine job in pedaling:

Normally, when pedaling is overdone, one hears notes of the previous chord/tonality leaking through to the next chord.  Such was not the case with your playing.

Also, when grossly under-pedaled, one can hear where the pianist's fingers have been lifted too early, such that phrasing tends to get chopped off a bit.  Again, this was not the case for your playing.

* * * * *

Understanding that you recorded the Beatles excerpt the same time as the Steely Dan, the piano's sound has a somewhat "wooly" characteristic to it.  Restated, the hammers sound "too soft" for this piece; the attacks seem not to have the right amount of "ping" to them.  Alternately, this excessively wooly effect is achieved in Pianoteq by holding down the Una Corda pedal throughout the piece, and the slider for the Soft Pedal was probably in excess of 0.35 on the slider's scale of 0.0 to 1.0.   

I might be wrongly assuming you used a soft pedal, so I shall fall back on my first guess that the hammer hardness for both piano and mezzoforte were possibly reduced a tad too much.

Regarding velocities, and my own experience between note-on velocity and resulting Pianoteq sound, I would guess you are playing in the 40-to-60 range of note-on velocities.  Perhaps your keyboard controller isn't outputting very high velocities, in which case, you might consider creating about 5 or 6 points along the velocity curve, and deviate upward from the standard 45-degree graph in that window in a slightly upwardly bent arch (starting at 0,0; then be perhaps 8 to 12 points higher at 64; and gradually returning to 127,127 at the highest velocity).

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Joe

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (29-08-2010 21:53)

Reply by jcfelice88keys

  • Avatar
  • jcfelice88keys
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-09-2008
  • Posts: 1,149

Re: A first test recording (Steely Dan's "Rose Darling")

Hello Anders,

Very beautiful playing in King of the World.  I would agree your expressiveness is headed in the right direction, especially when using Pianoteq Play. 

Regarding your second question, I really wouldn't call it a weakest link in your playing, but in the King, I would strive to separate the melody from the balance of the eighth notes/quavers.  There's one point in the middle of the song where your left thumb repeatedly plays an E below middle C on the off beats:  That's fine, but go a little easy on these off-beat E's, so as to allow the listener to separate in one's mind the melody from the accompaniment.

Your presentation of Steely Dan's King of the World was the best so far that I have heard.

Cheers,

Joe

Reply by jcfelice88keys

  • Avatar
  • jcfelice88keys
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-09-2008
  • Posts: 1,149

Re: A first test recording (Steely Dan's "Rose Darling")

nothingbutblues wrote:

Joe,

Having only a very limited musical vocabulary, is there any chance you can explain this differently?

“... I would strive to separate the melody from the balance of the eighth notes/quavers.”

The so-called "eighth notes" are those that follow the rhythmical pattern of "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and".  Restated, in the King song, they go twice as fast as the melody's speed.

In my original sentence that is quoted above, I suggested that you play the melody either a little louder, ... or ... you play the left hand rhythmical part a little softer, such that the listener can tell which is the melody and which is the rhythm part.

Hopefully, this helps.

Cheers,

Joe

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (04-09-2010 18:27)