Topic by benormerod

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Topic: Request; True una corda

I'm curious to know more about the una corda on pianoteq. Is it a true una corda or is it more of an upright soft pedal? I've tried spreading the unison width to full and then trying the una corda on and off, and the results sound equally fruity to me, although I'd expect the sound to be less rich as in a true una corda only two of the three strings are being struck. This is surely the whole point of the una corda pedal, to provide a purer, rather than quieter sound. Richter was said at times to have played entire recitals with the una corda pedal depressed.

I haven't tried the period pianos yet, as I only have the demo, but I know that some early pianos had a due corda (two strings) and a una corda (one string pedal) and that Beethoven scored for these pedals several times. Forgive me if you already have these features, but if you don't, this would be a fascinating addition to your features.

Written in sincere admiration of your remarkable product.

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Reply by EvilDragon

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Re: Request; True una corda

It's a true una corda, I'm pretty sure.

Last edited by EvilDragon (09-08-2010 12:03)
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Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: Request; True una corda

Actually, in a real grand piano, each string of a unison can be stroked when using the una corda pedal:

una-corda

When the action is shifted to the right by the una corda pedal, due to the grooves in the hammer, a softer part of the hammer felt is hitting the strings, providing thus a softer sound. Because of the slope of the grooves, phase variation can also occur. This is what is modelled in Pianoteq.

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Reply by EvilDragon

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Re: Request; True una corda

I didn't notice this (using only a sustain pedal in my setup, currently), so I have to ask - is una corda in PTQ supporting continuous CC, just like sustain pedal? Are really all pedals continuous? If yes, that's pretty amazing!

Last edited by EvilDragon (09-08-2010 13:19)
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Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: Request; True una corda

No, this pedal is not continous, only on/off.

EDIT: this was an error, see my post below: "Sorry to quote myself, but it looks like I have a problem with my memory... this pedal was on/off in earlier versions but it is now continuous."

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Reply by EvilDragon

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Re: Request; True una corda

...there's a feature request, then. Make all pedals continuous. Can it be done? Then the user could sweep from tre corda to due corda to una corda. On the other hand, I dunno how feasible would this be for sostenuto and harmonic pedal.

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Reply by benormerod

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Re: Request; True una corda

Thank you for being so thorough. And how about the due corda in the period pianos? or do none of the pianos modeled it use it? It would be a wonderful thing to have, just to experiment with Beethoven's directions.

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Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: Request; True una corda

The pianoforte from the KIViR collection have 3 strings starting from low medium or medium range (2 in the bass). BTW, concerning Beethoven, the Kremsegg schloss museum http://www.schloss-kremsegg.at/museum/e.../index.htm has a pianoforte that was specially constructed for him at the end of his life, which is equipped with 4 strings! Probably a nightmare for the tuner...

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Reply by jcfelice88keys

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Re: Request; True una corda

Hello All,

Based on my experience in tuning real grand pianos of all types, ages and conditions, I can clearly state that the una corda effect is NOT consistent from one note to the next.

Why not?  Especially in small- to mid-sized grands (up to about 6 feet long), uniform hammer alignment with the strings ... is not very good. Since the spacing between individual sets of strings varies in these pianos, but the hammers shift together as a collection when the u.c. pedal is depressed, one rarely gets a uniform effect from note-to-note where the three strings are concerned.

Some pianists claim they are able to "half pedal" the una corda pedal.  Well, they might depress the pedal only half way down, but this can make a strange sonic artifact and can actually shave the left sides of each felt covered hammer by a shearing action with the hardened steel strings.

In theory, if a particular pianist continues his habit of half u.c. pedaling the same piano, he can actually ruin the hammers by reducing the hammers' mass by this shaving action.

Hopefully this information will add to your knowledge of the workings of a real grand piano.

Aside:  Upright pianos' una corda pedals only move the hammers closer to the strings, so one has less momentum behind them when a key is depressed.  In actuality, because the grooved portions of upright pianos' hammers continue to contact the strings with the same compressed grooved surfaces.  Little happens to the sound when one engages the una corda pedal in an upright piano.

Cheers,

Joe

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (10-08-2010 04:29)

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: Request; True una corda

I don't know about you folks, but for a real grand the keyboard/action dislocation even than just a bit, while using soft pedal, it's quite anoying.

I don't think any digital piano manufacturer will ever take the work to create a adavanced keyboard to simulate this anoying movement.

Last edited by Beto-Music (10-08-2010 06:24)

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: Request; True una corda

Philippe Guillaume wrote:

No, this pedal is not continous, only on/off.

Sorry to quote myself, but it looks like I have a problem with my memory... this pedal was on/off in earlier versions but it is now continuous.

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Reply by EvilDragon

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Re: Request; True una corda

Philippe Guillaume wrote:

Sorry to quote myself, but it looks like I have a problem with my memory... this pedal was on/off in earlier versions but it is now continuous.

Excellent!

Hard work and guts!