Topic: Prepared Piano - Request

Wouldn't the physical modeling approach enable you to make the greatest prepared piano plugin ever. The only competitors are sample based libraries limiting the user to the imagination of the maker. If I understand your concept correctly, it should be possible to apply modifiers to each string separatly with many parameters adjustable. A feature like that would make me buy right away, because it really is unique!
Sorry, if that has been brought up befor. I couldn't find it ...

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

Did you try pressing the "Random" button? A whole lot of weird sounds can be made that way

Hard work and guts!

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

FriFlo wrote:

Wouldn't the physical modeling approach enable you to make the greatest prepared piano plugin EVARRRRRR...

Sorry, I couldn't resist changing the last word. 

As Mario implies, Pianoteq already does "prepared piano" quite well through randomization (especially in the "Pro" version, where you can really randomize things!).

I think you're implying that they build a model with an interface (dedicated sliders and all) specifically designed for preparing... er... a "prepared" piano.  I can see it now:  sliders for washers, clothespins, nuts, rubber erasers, Twinkies...  "Hmmm, it doesn't have enough scrimshaw tusks -- let's dial in 20 more of 'em!!!"

Seriously, though, give "random" a good whirl and see where it takes ya!

"Our developers, who art in Toulouse, hallowed be thy physical-models.
Thy version 4 come, thy new instruments be done, in the computer as it is in the wood!"

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

dhalfen wrote:

I think you're implying that they build a model with an interface (dedicated sliders and all) specifically designed for preparing... er... a "prepared" piano.  I can see it now:  sliders for washers, clothespins, nuts, rubber erasers, Twinkies...  "Hmmm, it doesn't have enough scrimshaw tusks -- let's dial in 20 more of 'em!!!"

Yeah, that is exactly, what I am implying. Wouldn't that be great? I just hope, I am not the only one being excited about it ...
I am sure you can do some fair sound design, that would cover some aspects of prepared piano, as both of you mentioned. But I want more!!!!! :-)

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

FriFlo wrote:

But I want more!!!!! :-)

Don't we all...

I'd first like Pianoteq's sound perfected to that point that anyone using sample libraries would immediately want to switch to Pianoteq after they try it.

That's not happening yet, so, there's lots to do before prepared piano addon!

Hard work and guts!

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

FriFlo wrote:

But I want more!!!!! :-)

Oh, believe me, we all do!  I'm definitely in the same boat as you on this subject. 

Actually, this brings up an interesting idea for development:  imagine a "Note Edit" pane where you could add assorted objects to the strings at various points.  Whether this is done graphically (i.e., across an image of the actual the harp) or implicitly (with bars!), the result would be most interesting!

Someday, perhaps!

"Our developers, who art in Toulouse, hallowed be thy physical-models.
Thy version 4 come, thy new instruments be done, in the computer as it is in the wood!"

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

EvilDragon wrote:
FriFlo wrote:

But I want more!!!!! :-)

Don't we all...

I'd first like Pianoteq's sound perfected to that point that anyone using sample libraries would immediately want to switch to Pianoteq after they try it.

That's not happening yet, so, there's lots to do before prepared piano addon!

I agree!
Address the main complaint first. Then do the other projects.

Last edited by DonSmith (29-06-2010 18:00)

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

DonSmith wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:
FriFlo wrote:

But I want more!!!!! :-)

Don't we all...

I'd first like Pianoteq's sound perfected to that point that anyone using sample libraries would immediately want to switch to Pianoteq after they try it.

That's not happening yet, so, there's lots to do before prepared piano addon!

I agree!
Address the main complaint first. Then do the other projects.

In some way I also agree, but I haven't bought it yet. If there was an addon like this I would buy it right away only for that sake. As I said, I own many decent sample based piano emulations. Each has its pros and cons. What I found intresting in pianoteq is proportional pedaling and tweakablity. But, as many of you said: The sound is not quite there, yet. (comparing with VSL Boesendorfer not quite fair, cause it's way more expensive, of course).
That's why I'm asking for prepared Piano: It could be a pretty unique feature, no other sample based company could compete with ... hopefully for some more people. I guess you guys are already interested, too!

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

FriFlo wrote:

...but I haven't bought it yet. If there was an addon like this I would buy it right away only for that sake.

Ahh.. but if you buy now you will have invested in the future progression of the technology.    That is the way it works.
You are talking about modeling an infinite array of effectors -I think we'll be flying our cars and playing Pictionary with our androids before then... unless the other likely scenario occurs...
Until then, you can always poke holes in your speakers or put a tin cup full of spare keys on top of your sub.  I like guitar FX myself.

"Downing a fifth results in diminished capacity."

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

Beside the approach "prepared piano" with items, it would be good to have a"overtone" model -  playing the piano while damping the string with the fingertip on certain positions (half way string for octaves, 2/3 for quints etc.).
Beside it is difficult to handle this fast...

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

Klangschmied, this can be achieved as follows: in the action pannel, you can control the damper position and the damping duration. So if you set for example damper position to 1/3 (equivalent to 2/3 = 1-1/3) and increase the damping duration to make the effect more audible, and play staccato, you will obtain the overtone effect you describe, getting strong partials #3, 6, 9 ...

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

@ Philippe Guillaume

thanks for this info Philippe, but I wish
- I can set this for every string differently (not globally) with different positions on different strings. Then I can play the "quasi-same" pitch on different strings and positions with the deviation in cents according to the overtone scale.
- that the "base-tone" with damping of the string is not audible, like in the real piano.
- and the damping force is variable...

Klangschmied

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

Klangschmied, setting the damper position (and duration) for every string differently is not possible, but maybe you meant for each note, which is possible in the Pianoteq PRO version.

Not sure to understand what you mean about the base-tone, but although the fundamental vanishes faster than for example the overtone having a node at the damper position, being usually stronger at the beginning of the note it takes some time to vanish completely, as in a real piano.

The damping force is driving the damping duration, so when you reduce the damping duration, you are actually augmenting the damping force.

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

@ Phillipe

.. you meant for each note, which is possible in the Pianoteq PRO version

sorry about my misleading description, I mean for each note.
I did a little experimentation (Pianoteq PRO), and it is really exciting...

..fundamental vanishes faster ...

When I do it on a real piano, the fundamental is not so dominant.

The damping force is driving the damping duration, so when you reduce the damping duration, you are actually augmenting the damping force.

I  can get different "colours" with different forces, also having a strong overtone (with less fundamental) with long durations would be really exciting.
Now I will dive in the Note Edit mode and see how far I can get.
This possibilities in Pianoteq PRO are really great !
Klangschmied

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

Is there a way to edit the "Note edit" parameters in a non graphical way, f.e. with an Texteditor ?

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

sort of, using copy and paste: right click in the note edit window, choose "copy" from the menu, paste into a text editor , you'll get something like:

Volume = [-7, -6, -6, -5, -5, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0, +1, +2, +4, +6, +8, +9, +9, +9, +9, +8, +6, +4, +1, -1, -2, -3, -4, -5, -7, -8, -8, -9, -9, -8, -8, -7, -6, -5, -2, -1, +1, +1, 0, 0, -2, -4, -5, -6, -6, -7, -8, -8, -9, -9, -9, -9, -8, -7, -7, -6, -5, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0, +1, +3, +4, +7, +3, +1, +1, +1, +1, +1, +1, +1, +2, +2, +2, +3, +3, +3, +4, +4, +4, +4]

you can edit it in the text editor, copy it in the clipboard, and paste it back into the note edit window

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

@ julien
thanks for the hint, this helps me a lot.

Re: Prepared Piano - Request

Here's a pretty good prepared piano...or is it a prepared guitar, or cello?

http://thereifixedit.com/2010/07/05/whi...beautiful/