Topic by mooks

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Topic: Unnatural C3 resonance?

I've just installed Pianoteq on my new netbook (a Dell Mini 10) and must say, I'm stunned at how well it all works. Even the built in sound card is pretty good, but it can't drive my Sennheiser HD580s very well, so I've started using my more sensitive high quality in-ear headphones (Shure E4C-N).

Unfortunately, I can now hear some rather off-putting resonances in the C3 model (v3.6.0). This is across the keyboard, but is particularly bad on F1, even when played softly. It has nothing to do with sample rate, the PC or the soundcard. The effect is more pronounced in C3 Mix Recording, and if you turn all the hammer settings to soft.

Here's a spectrum analysis of F1 wav recording (C3 Solo Recording, vel is about 50):
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9059/f1resonance.jpg

I guess my in-ear headphones are particularly sensitive at this 8kHz frequency, but it shouldn't be there, should it?

Last edited by mooks (11-04-2010 13:18)

Reply by EvilDragon

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Re: Unnatural C3 resonance?

Why wouldn't it be there? Depends on soundboard a lot, I guess... Try moving the mics around?

Hard work and guts!

Reply by mooks

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Re: Unnatural C3 resonance?

Because it sounds a bit wrong! And I don't hear it on the other piano models. It sounds a bit like low sample rate aliasing. The mic settings don't seem to make much difference.

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: Unnatural C3 resonance?

mooks, it could be that some in-ear headphones emphasizes a particular frenquency range, so maybe a slight touch of EQ could correct this.

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Reply by sigasa

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Re: Unnatural C3 resonance?

why don't you submit an .fxp that demonstrates this effect so we can listen with various headphones?

Chris

Reply by Jake Johnson

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Re: Unnatural C3 resonance?

Could you post an mp3 that demonstrates the sound?

Reply by mooks

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Re: Unnatural C3 resonance?

C3 Solo Recording:
Equalizer = [2963, 8145; +0.0, +5.0]

If I paste the above into the equalizer, I can hear in my HD580s the high pitched resonances at a similar level to the Shure in-ear phones, particularly when playing chromatically and softly E1 to A1. Maybe others can hear what I'm talking about? 5dB doesn't seem much of a dramatic emphasis.

I can certainly correct for this and take 5dB off to hide the sounds, but this does seem an oddity of the C3 model vs the others.

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: Unnatural C3 resonance?

I wouldn't say it means an oddity vs the other, but rather that the C3 has a richer high frequency spectrum than the other (which is true). It is not surprising that this richness gets uncomfortable if you rise high freqs by 5dB whereas the default EQ fits well the Sennheiser (which is BTW one of the brands we use for checking). Maybe if you lower high freqs by 5dB as you suggested, you will find it ok with the Shure E4C-N? The current EQ choice is adapted to the various hearing devices in a mean value sense, it cannot be ideal for each device because of the significant differences between various headphones brands and models.

Philippe Guillaume's Website

Reply by mooks

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Re: Unnatural C3 resonance?

Yes, the -5dB works well with the Shure E4C-Ns.

I did wonder if this was just natural spectral content of the piano, but it didn't seem entirely natural, like in the way it's audible when playing softly.

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: Unnatural C3 resonance?

mooks, I'm glad that the -5dB works well for you. Regarding your question about natural content spectral, the high freqs you noticed do come from the spectral content of the physical model, they are not due to some digital aliasing.

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