Topic by MC_Pete

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Topic: Feature Request: "Super-Staccato Pedal"

Hello there!

I am an "early intermediate player" at the age of 53. Hence, I feel that my "mechanical learning abilities" are somewhat limited. One limitation appears when playing fast staccato runs. After some notes, they tend to turn more into legato. This appears particularly if the fifth finger is involved. Maybe this problem is not relevant for more advanced or younger players. So I am looking for your comments.

Although I now that this problem could be also handled using external tools in your midi chain, I would like to see a "staccato pedaling" functionality directly inside Pianoteq. Pianoteq already has a beautiful set of pedals of which some are not available in traditional pianos. The additional pedal could support fast staccato/staccatissimo runs. The functionality could be implemented as follows:

When this pedal is pressed down, Pianoteq automatically generates “note off” events for each pressed key (i.e. according to each "note on") after a definable number of milliseconds. For keeping longer notes/chords in the left (or right) hand while rushing through staccato notes with the other hand, there should be a definable split point above (or below) of which the function is active. It would be nice, if the number of milliseconds could be also “humanized”. It would be even better, if there could be a defined range of milliseconds in case this function is assigned to an “analog” pedal, so the length of the note depends on the way the pedal is being pressed (i.e. if the used hardware pedal sends not only a pressed/released signal but also a value). To make it perfect, there could be an additional parameter which defines the note off value for this automated release, so the release could be more less "hard".

I would like to have this feature for "cheating" in some classical material, where the result would be staccato while I really play some sluggish legato...

Would that be useful for anyone else, or is it just me?

Best regards,

   Pete

Reply by Pianistically

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Re: Feature Request: "Super-Staccato Pedal"

MC_Pete wrote:

Hello there!

I am an "early intermediate player" at the age of 53. Hence, I feel that my "mechanical learning abilities" are somewhat limited. One limitation appears when playing fast staccato runs. After some notes, they tend to turn more into legato. This appears particularly if the fifth finger is involved. Maybe this problem is not relevant for more advanced or younger players. So I am looking for your comments.

Although I now that this problem could be also handled using external tools in your midi chain, I would like to see a "staccato pedaling" functionality directly inside Pianoteq. Pianoteq already has a beautiful set of pedals of which some are not available in traditional pianos. The additional pedal could support fast staccato/staccatissimo runs. The functionality could be implemented as follows:

When this pedal is pressed down, Pianoteq automatically generates “note off” events for each pressed key (i.e. according to each "note on") after a definable number of milliseconds. For keeping longer notes/chords in the left (or right) hand while rushing through staccato notes with the other hand, there should be a definable split point above (or below) of which the function is active. It would be nice, if the number of milliseconds could be also “humanized”. It would be even better, if there could be a defined range of milliseconds in case this function is assigned to an “analog” pedal, so the length of the note depends on the way the pedal is being pressed (i.e. if the used hardware pedal sends not only a pressed/released signal but also a value). To make it perfect, there could be an additional parameter which defines the note off value for this automated release, so the release could be more less "hard".

I would like to have this feature for "cheating" in some classical material, where the result would be staccato while I really play some sluggish legato...

Would that be useful for anyone else, or is it just me?

Best regards,

   Pete

Pretty easy to implement and as you have pointed out you could easily program it in any DAW or VST host with scripting functionality . However , I would consider it somehow not aligned with  Pianoteq goals . Pianoteq is trying to model as close as possible the acoustic and  EP pianos using  pianists fingers as the input source  with midi protocol acting as a middle man to transmit  the info to pianoteq engine . So any midi transformation other than velocity curves (one can them  compare  to regulation on an acoustic ) is questionable .
Given Pianoteq’s goal , any difficult piano technique related to touch , voicing,…  should be equally difficult than when played and the  acoustic equivalent and it applies to staccato which is  one of the fundamental piano  touch ( and yes it is difficult and requires lot of practice ) .

Moreover , if such pedals were publicly available and offered by default , inevitably any live or recorded performance would be questioned as whether such tools were used or not ….

So imho , no pain , no gain . It requires long practice sessions over several years to be able to play perfect staccatos in all scenarios, fast octave tremolos , smooth fast arpeggios with equal velocities. But that’s what playing in instrument is about and it’s part of the fun.

Reply by MC_Pete

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Re: Feature Request: "Super-Staccato Pedal"

Pianistically wrote:

[...]

Moreover , if such pedals were publicly available and offered by default , inevitably any live or recorded performance would be questioned as whether such tools were used or not ….

So imho , no pain , no gain . It requires long practice sessions over several years to be able to play perfect staccatos in all scenarios, fast octave tremolos , smooth fast arpeggios with equal velocities. But that’s what playing in instrument is about and it’s part of the fun.

@Pianistically: Thank you for your answer. I really appreciate it! Your argumentation is convincing: The currently implemented pedals all do things that real pianos either can do (Sustain, Sostenuto, ...) or cannot do at all. The "Thunder Pedal" might be theoretically somewhere in between though....

However, Modartt claims that Pianoteq is the "4th generation piano", and hence it supports features that real pianos do not have, and part of these things are not driven by the fingers, but by Pianoteq's magic... e.g. when using the Thunder Pedal.

Generally, I think going further in this direction is also a matter innovation: Things should be easier if possible. Although learning to play the piano is a long journey that I really enjoy, I would also be open to buying a wireless brain-to-midi adapter for playing complex stuff, if such a thing was available technically... and would not require any brain surgery...

Reply by Pianistically

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Re: Feature Request: "Super-Staccato Pedal"

MC_Pete wrote:
Pianistically wrote:

[...]

Moreover , if such pedals were publicly available and offered by default , inevitably any live or recorded performance would be questioned as whether such tools were used or not ….

So imho , no pain , no gain . It requires long practice sessions over several years to be able to play perfect staccatos in all scenarios, fast octave tremolos , smooth fast arpeggios with equal velocities. But that’s what playing in instrument is about and it’s part of the fun.

@Pianistically: Thank you for your answer. I really appreciate it! Your argumentation is convincing: The currently implemented pedals all do things that real pianos either can do (Sustain, Sostenuto, ...) or cannot do at all. The "Thunder Pedal" might be theoretically somewhere in between though....

However, Modartt claims that Pianoteq is the "4th generation piano", and hence it supports features that real pianos do not have, and part of these things are not driven by the fingers, but by Pianoteq's magic... e.g. when using the Thunder Pedal.

Generally, I think going further in this direction is also a matter innovation: Things should be easier if possible. Although learning to play the piano is a long journey that I really enjoy, I would also be open to buying a wireless brain-to-midi adapter for playing complex stuff, if such a thing was available technically... and would not require any brain surgery...

you are very welcome Pete . You are right about the thunder pedal , which is somehow ‘borderline ‘ . And I wish you great pleasure with your piano journey   !!!