Topic by dikrek

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Topic: Comparison between Pianoteq and Modern D

Hi all, I made another attempt.

Here’s the Modern D recording from David Lai:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZTgDvFS-uk

He gave me his MIDI file and I did this with a modified NYD Player preset plus some external reverb and saturation and EQ:

https://pianoclack.s3.us-east-1.amazona...player.mp3

I know several of the folks in that forum dislike Pianoteq but I’ve been trying to figure out the invariants of this.

So - in my version, what’s missing?

To me it sounds good. I’m using balanced Sennheiser HD560S and a high end headphone amp with a balanced connection.

I’m not claiming either sounds better. If anything, the sustains and resonance on Modern D seem a bit… restrained.

And the room tone and reverb in Modern D aren’t to my liking. So I didn’t try to replicate that.

It may be useful to focus also on the more intense parts like from 1:40-2:30, or around minute 4.

The people that dislike Pianoteq keep saying those parts sound totally artificial and not at all like a piano.

Last edited by dikrek (07-03-2026 16:29)

Reply by Professor Leandro Duarte

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Re: Comparison between Pianoteq and Modern D

dikrek wrote:

Hi all, I made another attempt.

Here’s the Modern D recording from David Lai:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZTgDvFS-uk

He gave me his MIDI file and I did this with a modified NYD Player preset plus some external reverb and saturation and EQ:

https://pianoclack.s3.us-east-1.amazona...player.mp3

I know several of the folks in that forum dislike Pianoteq but I’ve been trying to figure out the invariants of this.

So - in my version, what’s missing?

To me it sounds good. I’m using balanced Sennheiser HD560S and a high end headphone amp with a balanced connection.

I’m not claiming either sounds better. If anything, the sustains and resonance on Modern D seem a bit… restrained.

And the room tone and reverb in Modern D aren’t to my liking. So I didn’t try to replicate that.

It may be useful to focus also on the more intense parts like from 1:40-2:30, or around minute 4.

The people that dislike Pianoteq keep saying those parts sound totally artificial and not at all like a piano.


Interestingly, this section (1:40 to 2:30) was the one I found most realistic in Pianoteq.

I think it's all a matter of taste and perspective.

Respeito, Esforço e Sabedoria

Reply by Pianistically

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Re: Comparison between Pianoteq and Modern D

dikrek wrote:

Hi all, I made another attempt.

Here’s the Modern D recording from David Lai:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZTgDvFS-uk

He gave me his MIDI file and I did this with a modified NYD Player preset plus some external reverb and saturation and EQ:

https://pianoclack.s3.us-east-1.amazona...player.mp3

I know several of the folks in that forum dislike Pianoteq but I’ve been trying to figure out the invariants of this.

So - in my version, what’s missing?

To me it sounds good. I’m using balanced Sennheiser HD560S and a high end headphone amp with a balanced connection.

I’m not claiming either sounds better. If anything, the sustains and resonance on Modern D seem a bit… restrained.

And the room tone and reverb in Modern D aren’t to my liking. So I didn’t try to replicate that.

It may be useful to focus also on the more intense parts like from 1:40-2:30, or around minute 4.

The people that dislike Pianoteq keep saying those parts sound totally artificial and not at all like a piano.

I find the Pianoteq version smoother with better rendition of the dynamics. I think the excess of reverb and resonance somehow ruins the performance in the Modern D version. The lower bass sounds good though.   (For the record , the pianist may not be too familiar with the piece as some dynamics are wrong. Bar 62 after the ff in bar 61 there must be a strong descrencendo in bar 62 63  to reach p on bar 64  and ppp on bar 70. The pianist here doesn't not respect it . It affects of course both renditions)

Reply by jmanrique

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Re: Comparison between Pianoteq and Modern D

I think there's a fundamental flaw in that comparison. Importing a MIDI file recorded on another instrument is misleading, because a pianist adjusts their performance based on the real-time feedback they hear from that specific instrument.

dikrek wrote:

Hi all, I made another attempt.

Here’s the Modern D recording from David Lai:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZTgDvFS-uk

He gave me his MIDI file and I did this with a modified NYD Player preset plus some external reverb and saturation and EQ:

https://pianoclack.s3.us-east-1.amazona...player.mp3

I know several of the folks in that forum dislike Pianoteq but I’ve been trying to figure out the invariants of this.

So - in my version, what’s missing?

To me it sounds good. I’m using balanced Sennheiser HD560S and a high end headphone amp with a balanced connection.

I’m not claiming either sounds better. If anything, the sustains and resonance on Modern D seem a bit… restrained.

And the room tone and reverb in Modern D aren’t to my liking. So I didn’t try to replicate that.

It may be useful to focus also on the more intense parts like from 1:40-2:30, or around minute 4.

The people that dislike Pianoteq keep saying those parts sound totally artificial and not at all like a piano.

Reply by dikrek

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Re: Comparison between Pianoteq and Modern D

Of course, but that’s all I could use to compare the tone. This is really a question of how to make Pianoteq even more realistic. What’s missing to make the sound better? It sounds good to me already though.

jmanrique wrote:

I think there's a fundamental flaw in that comparison. Importing a MIDI file recorded on another instrument is misleading, because a pianist adjusts their performance based on the real-time feedback they hear from that specific instrument.

dikrek wrote:

Hi all, I made another attempt.

Here’s the Modern D recording from David Lai:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZTgDvFS-uk

He gave me his MIDI file and I did this with a modified NYD Player preset plus some external reverb and saturation and EQ:

https://pianoclack.s3.us-east-1.amazona...player.mp3

I know several of the folks in that forum dislike Pianoteq but I’ve been trying to figure out the invariants of this.

So - in my version, what’s missing?

To me it sounds good. I’m using balanced Sennheiser HD560S and a high end headphone amp with a balanced connection.

I’m not claiming either sounds better. If anything, the sustains and resonance on Modern D seem a bit… restrained.

And the room tone and reverb in Modern D aren’t to my liking. So I didn’t try to replicate that.

It may be useful to focus also on the more intense parts like from 1:40-2:30, or around minute 4.

The people that dislike Pianoteq keep saying those parts sound totally artificial and not at all like a piano.

Reply by jmanrique

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Re: Comparison between Pianoteq and Modern D

It is also a matter of perspective: performer vs. engineer or audiophile. The performer simply plays one instrument, then the other... and draws their own conclusions, which can vary depending on their mood that day, the acoustics of the room, the piece they are playing, and so on. The engineer is more focused on the process of creating a file—recording, EQing, and mastering. Here, it seems we are trying to find a middle ground, if such a thing is even possible.

dikrek wrote:

Of course, but that’s all I could use to compare the tone. This is really a question of how to make Pianoteq even more realistic. What’s missing to make the sound better? It sounds good to me already though.

jmanrique wrote:

I think there's a fundamental flaw in that comparison. Importing a MIDI file recorded on another instrument is misleading, because a pianist adjusts their performance based on the real-time feedback they hear from that specific instrument.

dikrek wrote:

Hi all, I made another attempt.

Here’s the Modern D recording from David Lai:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZTgDvFS-uk

He gave me his MIDI file and I did this with a modified NYD Player preset plus some external reverb and saturation and EQ:

https://pianoclack.s3.us-east-1.amazona...player.mp3

I know several of the folks in that forum dislike Pianoteq but I’ve been trying to figure out the invariants of this.

So - in my version, what’s missing?

To me it sounds good. I’m using balanced Sennheiser HD560S and a high end headphone amp with a balanced connection.

I’m not claiming either sounds better. If anything, the sustains and resonance on Modern D seem a bit… restrained.

And the room tone and reverb in Modern D aren’t to my liking. So I didn’t try to replicate that.

It may be useful to focus also on the more intense parts like from 1:40-2:30, or around minute 4.

The people that dislike Pianoteq keep saying those parts sound totally artificial and not at all like a piano.

Reply by dikrek

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Re: Comparison between Pianoteq and Modern D

And here’s a newer rendition from Modern D provided by David - this seems to have better room tone:

https://pianoclack.s3.us-east-1.amazona...lo-mix.mp3

dikrek wrote:

Hi all, I made another attempt.

Here’s the Modern D recording from David Lai:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZTgDvFS-uk

He gave me his MIDI file and I did this with a modified NYD Player preset plus some external reverb and saturation and EQ:

https://pianoclack.s3.us-east-1.amazona...player.mp3

I know several of the folks in that forum dislike Pianoteq but I’ve been trying to figure out the invariants of this.

So - in my version, what’s missing?

To me it sounds good. I’m using balanced Sennheiser HD560S and a high end headphone amp with a balanced connection.

I’m not claiming either sounds better. If anything, the sustains and resonance on Modern D seem a bit… restrained.

And the room tone and reverb in Modern D aren’t to my liking. So I didn’t try to replicate that.

It may be useful to focus also on the more intense parts like from 1:40-2:30, or around minute 4.

The people that dislike Pianoteq keep saying those parts sound totally artificial and not at all like a piano.

Reply by iternabe

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Re: Comparison between Pianoteq and Modern D

David Lai posted his Modern D preset on a PianoClack forum thread.  I downloaded it and found it sounds quite different from my mostly default preset in Modern D.  There was a lot more reverb in his preset.  My point is, even Modern D sound can vary a lot depend on how one tweak the parameters.

Then if you use different velocity curve, apply compressor, limiter, or eq, then the comparison can be even more muddled, like it's more about which one allow you to make a better final production, rather which one sounds better out of the box.

That said, David Lai always points out there is a certain characteristic of Pianoteq ("nasal" sound?) that he can clearly hear and not like.  I posted a spliced blind test using two Pianoteq models and a Modern D, and he called them out all correctly.  Even if you think he is partial to Modern D, he is telling the truth about what he hears.

Reply by dikrek

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Re: Comparison between Pianoteq and Modern D

iternabe wrote:

David Lai posted his Modern D preset on a PianoClack forum thread.  I downloaded it and found it sounds quite different from my mostly default preset in Modern D.  There was a lot more reverb in his preset.  My point is, even Modern D sound can vary a lot depend on how one tweak the parameters.

Then if you use different velocity curve, apply compressor, limiter, or eq, then the comparison can be even more muddled, like it's more about which one allow you to make a better final production, rather which one sounds better out of the box.

That said, David Lai always points out there is a certain characteristic of Pianoteq ("nasal" sound?) that he can clearly hear and not like.  I posted a spliced blind test using two Pianoteq models and a Modern D, and he called them out all correctly.  Even if you think he is partial to Modern D, he is telling the truth about what he hears.

I know, he always can tell which one is Pianoteq even when not compared to Modern D. I'm trying to figure out what it is that bothers him with the sound - perhaps some DSP can fix it, or maybe it's impossible and some people are just sensitive to it.

But between what I posted, does Pianoteq sound synthetic to you or just like a different flavor of piano?

Reply by iternabe

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Re: Comparison between Pianoteq and Modern D

dikrek wrote:

I know, he always can tell which one is Pianoteq even when not compared to Modern D. I'm trying to figure out what it is that bothers him with the sound - perhaps some DSP can fix it, or maybe it's impossible and some people are just sensitive to it.

But between what I posted, does Pianoteq sound synthetic to you or just like a different flavor of piano?

I have zero experience with acoustic piano.  While I can hear some differences between various digital piano sounds, I also find I can get used to them after playing for a short while.  Maybe being easily agreeable is a blessing?

Reply by dikrek

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Re: Comparison between Pianoteq and Modern D

iternabe wrote:
dikrek wrote:

I know, he always can tell which one is Pianoteq even when not compared to Modern D. I'm trying to figure out what it is that bothers him with the sound - perhaps some DSP can fix it, or maybe it's impossible and some people are just sensitive to it.

But between what I posted, does Pianoteq sound synthetic to you or just like a different flavor of piano?

I have zero experience with acoustic piano.  While I can hear some differences between various digital piano sounds, I also find I can get used to them after playing for a short while.  Maybe being easily agreeable is a blessing?

Maybe

Just did a new version with the Synchron reverb

https://pianoclack.s3.us-east-1.amazona...nchron.mp3

For reference, this is again the Modern D version:

https://pianoclack.s3.us-east-1.amazona...lo-mix.mp3

I think it's VERY close, at least I don't hear some crazy issue.