Topic by tomaeusd

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Topic: Pianoteq 9 sounds harsher than 8?

I noticed that Pianoteq 9 sounds like it has some harsher frequencies or something like subtle distortion. Here is a comparison alternating between the two (NY Steinway D Classical preset).

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9upr21le...h&dl=0

I wish I could describe it better but Pianoteq 8 sounds cleaner to me. I'm curious what could be causing this sort of artifact/distortion on a default preset and if there is a way to remove it to be more like Pianoteq 8. Pianoteq 9 is also slightly quieter than 8 but that's easily manageable (although strange that this would be changed between versions unless it's related to how mics work now).

Thanks for any help!

Last edited by tomaeusd (14-11-2025 03:45)

Reply by daniel_r328

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Re: Pianoteq 9 sounds harsher than 8?

Heya,

That's a feature not a bug - real pianos exhibit these high frequency shimmers too, but they don't always sound pleasant out of speakers so some sample libraries eq them out.

You can get rid of them effectively by slightly increasing the soundboard impedance or cutting the highs with an eq. Increasing the string length reduces them too (but also takes away the realism of the instrument so be aware of the trade-off)

Reply by tomaeusd

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Re: Pianoteq 9 sounds harsher than 8?

Hi Daniel, thanks for the reply!
If I reduce the impedance slightly it reduces the decay and changes the sustain/feel of the piano altogether. Regarding EQ, is there any way to only EQ the new/adjusted resonance to sound like it did before? Otherwise it I am removing the other frequencies along with it.

Reply by brundlefly

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Re: Pianoteq 9 sounds harsher than 8?

tomaeusd wrote:

Regarding EQ, is there any way to only EQ the new/adjusted resonance to sound like it did before? Otherwise it I am removing the other frequencies along with it.

If possible at all, it will require a dynamic EQ that can follow that harmonic across the keyboard. In your example, I can see the inharmonic peak at around 4265Hz just below - and larger than - the harmonic peak at ~4700Hz. I can take it out pretty effectively and transparently with a high-Q cut at that frequency, but even if a dynamic EQ could do it, it's not an ideal solution. It would be preferable for Modartt to tame it in the model... assuming it's not an MP3 artifact which I haven't checked, but I assume you're hearing it live...?

Reply by daniel_r328

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Re: Pianoteq 9 sounds harsher than 8?

tomaeusd wrote:

If I reduce the impedance slightly it reduces the decay and changes the sustain/feel of the piano altogether.

That's ultimately what you're asking for, right? There's a design aspect you don't particularly like and you'd like to tweak it away. But, since the aspect is an authentic representation of what the real instrument sounds like, what you're asking for is a less realistic design, or at least a design that's different to the original instrument. But, since piano design is hard and overconstrained, there's no such thing as a perfect design, and if you improve one aspect, another one is bound to get worse.

If you just want to restore the v8 sound you could download the legacy version, which sounds like before!

Reply by brundlefly

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Re: Pianoteq 9 sounds harsher than 8?

daniel_r328 wrote:

But, since the aspect is an authentic representation of what the real instrument sounds like, what you're asking for is a less realistic design...

Do we know that? It seems entirely possible to me that a flaw in the new soundboard model or some other change they've made is excessively and unnaturally re-inforcing some high frequency component(s) of the sound. To me it sounds like the duplex section ringing too loudly.

In fact, I just tried lowering the Duplex resonance level and that did tame the troublesome harmonic noticeably without radically affecting the tone otherwise.

Last edited by brundlefly (16-11-2025 02:14)

Reply by daniel_r328

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Re: Pianoteq 9 sounds harsher than 8?

Hmm I was having the exact same issue a bit earlier: https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=12686, but couldn't get this to a point I was happy with by adjusting the duplex. The impedance tweak helped more, at a cost.

But I've since compared this to some acoustic instruments and seen that this is a real feature of their sound to varying extents so I'm willing to believe that the sound in the default preset is "correct"

All assuming we're talking about the same sound feature ofc.

Reply by tomaeusd

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Re: Pianoteq 9 sounds harsher than 8?

So it turns out this is indeed related to changes in how duplex scale resonance works. Lowering that slightly does bring it back closer to Pianoteq 8 default.
But also an interesting thing is that this duplex scale resonance affects the hammer noise as well which I didn't know. Try raising the hammer tone and then adjusting duplex to hear how it changes, especially noticeable in upper octaves. I'm not sure if the new harshness I've been hearing is related more to the string resonance or the hammer tone resonance but duplex adjustments are working for me.

As a side note I love that double-clicking resets parameters now.

Last edited by tomaeusd (16-11-2025 09:39)

Reply by daniel_r328

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Re: Pianoteq 9 sounds harsher than 8?

tomaeusd wrote:

Try raising the hammer tone and then adjusting duplex to hear how it changes, especially noticeable in upper octaves

Oh interesting, thanks for sharing! I'll experiment with that

Reply by Fancellu

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Re: Pianoteq 9 sounds harsher than 8?

Don't forget

https://www.modartt.com/pianoteq_legacy

i.e. Steinway D for v8 STEINWAYDV80.ptq

It might sound more to your liking

Reply by tomaeusd

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Re: Pianoteq 9 sounds harsher than 8?

Also one more thing I noticed is that sympathetic resonance also affects hammer noise. If you crank up hammer noise and sympathetic resonance and lower hammer tone, the hammer noise is very pronounced. Then lower sympathetic resonance and the hammer resonance disappears as well. To confirm this is actually the hammer noise, lower that parameter instead of sympathetic resonance and it disappears again.