Using Third-Party Plugins to Tailor Piano

I tend to use VST plug-ins too, EQ (SSL) in particular, sometimes another reverb too (SIR2 for example), why not. A matter of taste and habit.

I completely agree. I'm using PSP EasyVerb to great effect (pardon the pun!).

Warmest regards,

Chris

Quick and dirty Part II

I read somewhere that Boosting frequencies with EQ could enhance the piano sound as follows:

80-300 Hz For Warmth and Fullness
400-1k Hz For Deepth
1-2.5 kHz For Definition and Clarity
2-5 kHz For Presence
7-8 kHz For Hammer Attack
8-12 kHz For Air and Brilliance

Here is the D4v4 Dry

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...ry%202.mp3

.. and Wet

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...et%202.mp3

The D4v4 Bright is already boosted from 0db at 1 kHz rising to 6db at 5 kHz, thereafter remaining constant. I used EQ to round off the boosting at 5 kHz as there would be enough 'sizzle' with the two external vst plugins added, namely AAS Objeq Delay and GSi TimeVerb-X (I only used the Spring Reverb)

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...EQ%202.mp3

Thanks for sharing your working practise. Very interesting and useful to know.

I must check out Izotope Audiolens, it sounds a useful tool. I'm sure it will have far reaching effectiveness and could be applied to Organteq too through the DAW.

Indeed! Too many links in the chain to tweak to our preference! Then, of course, our preference changes and we can get used to anything over time - so the whole exercise is subjective.

Thanks for posting a comment, it's appreciated!

That was fun !

It would be interesting to know what percentage Roland / Modartt Pianoteq is your particular preference?

I've given up on the internal sounds of my DP (Yummy Yammy P-515) and I think trying to layer it with Pianoteq might throw up some interesting difficulties - for one, the touch response / dynamics are quite different as well as the octave stretching.

When guests come I let them play the piano as is. If they ask me to play, then I'll just use Pianoteq. Playing as is takes me a good while to get back into the instruments internal sound engine.

So, well done on successfully mixing an external keyboard and Pianoteq !

Hi and thanks for commenting!

Denise Audio have a great Room Reverb called Perfect Room 2 which is on sale at the moment for $39. I don't know if this is one you've tried already, but might be worth a look at.

Denise Audio - Perfect Room 2 (Click on link)

I use it on vocals to give them a bit more punch in the mix...

Looking forward to some of your audio examples too!

You can also add the WINTER10 code and get an additional 10% off...

I've worked quite diligently to dial in the dynamics, tonal balance, level mixing and phase synchronization of this setup. Without getting too far into the weeds, this is the setup:

- The RD-700NX is using its default "Clear Studio" piano patch with the reverb disabled. This has is a pretty bright, not too 'woody' tone that I like a lot all by itself.

- I originally set this up (in Cakewalk Sonar) with Pianoteq 7's Steinway D Jazz Recording preset, and have not updated it to Ptq 8 because I didn't immediately find the tonal change to be an improvement for this application, but I might revisit that at some point. In addition to disabling reverb, delay and limiter, and lowering or disabling key, damper and pedal sounds, I lowered the hammer hardness across the board and pulled down the level of the fundamental a little because what I most wanted from Pianoteq was its harmonics and sympathetic resonance without the high-fequency "clanginess" that Pianoteq is prone to at high velocities.

- Once I got the Pianoteq preset where I wanted it to blend well with the RD, I used a sequence of big chords played at every velocity to measure the loudness (LUFS) of the RD-700 and Pianoteq to set a matching velocity curve and dynamic range so that whatever mix of the two I use, the relative contribution is unchanging across the velocity range. And I added delay to align the Pianoteq output with the RD-700 being input-monitored through Sonar. There's some timing variation due to the nature of MIDI transmission and synth response, but only enough to add some 'life' to the sound without getting unpleasantly 'phasy'.

- Both pianos go through a common bus where the combination is EQ'd and midly enhanced with PSP Pianoverb2 and Waves GW PianoCentric with a send to a reverb bus using a Lexicon reverb with a studio-sized room, mixed pretty low, typically around -15dB. Sometimes I'll use compression/limiting to bring the level up for rendering an export, but I seldom use it while playing/recording.

- This was the basic setup until Pianoteq 8 introduced the resonance FX functionality and I decided to try appying it to the RD-700 to enhance its sympathetic resonance which is overly subtle and the reason for layering Pianoteq in the first place. I fully expected that adding this third dose of resonance was just going to create muddy mess, but was pleasantly surprised at the result and have kept it.

So, to answer the main question: Before I added the Pianoteq8 resonance to the RD, I generally ran Pianotec 7's output about 3dB below the RD-700. With Pianoteq 8's resonance included, I have both Pianoteq 7 down another 2dB such that the net contribution from both Pianoteq instances is about the same - call it 40-45%.

Great thanks for sharing, I'll be sure to check it out!

I'm wondering if it's worth subscribing to this mag? Any thoughts???

I've only ever read the occasional SoS article availabe online without a subsription. Back in the day I was a voracious consumer of paper magazines of all types including Keyboard and Electronic Musician. I don't read or watch anything online that consistently. There are a handful of Youtube channels that I follow somewhat regularly. Rick Beato's "Everything Music" is at the top of my list for music-related content, but it's not technology-oriented.

I'm much the same as you, I used to read thick glossy magazines on Cameras, Instruments, PCs - but no longer. I also enjoy Rick Beato's channel from time to time.

Here you go. I didn't try concealing which is which because I thought it was pretty obvious. All have their strong and weak points, and hearing them all back-to-back gave me ideas for improving the layered setup. I might do another set with a more sparse composition where the complexity of the layered version really shines on individual notes. If you have some MIDI you'd like me to render with the layered setup to better judge it, let me know.

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...B%20FX.mp3

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...B%20FX.mp3

https://forum.modartt.com/uploads.php?f...B%20FX.mp3

Thanks for listening. In a perfect workld, to get the most equitable comparison it would be best to re-record the MIDI with each piano individually tweaked and processed to suit. The MIDI for this was originally recorded using the RD-700 alone. If re-recording it for Pianoteq I would probably play with a lighter touch on the keys and with the layered setup a lighter touch on the pedal.

Thanks for the heads-up, I’ll be sure to check it out!!! You certainly make it sound like a dream VST…

Hi dikrek, thanks for popping in.

We'd like to know what you think of the various options you list above? Especially how you think each might enhance a particular musical genre or make a certain track pop.

Hope to read you soon

Hey yall, sooo...

They all are different.

Yep, lots of ways to impart mojo, and i have tried like A LOT (i basicly have almost all of the mojo plugins one can think of, collectiing since 2008 lol)

First of all, the Sonimus Consoles, i have them all, are better for mixing/Mastering than tracking / playing, IMHO, cuz as soon as they start to add Saturation it gets muddy / low mid thick fast, and that can literally be like 1.5db too hot into it, and that was always an balance act, so i ditched those.

I tried so many combinations, or recreations of studios/rigs/albums, different Saturators, Tapes, Pres, etc (NFuse, Kelvin so on and so forth) and for me the magic recipe went like this in the end:

TRACK 1 :
Pianoteq -> PREAMP "VLC" (mood of the day, on or off) -> EQ - Musical Borad Band "Pulsar W945" (little Cut at somewhere between 500Hz - 1400Khz it depends on the Piano Model i chosse) -> COMPRESSOR "MagicDeathEye" atm (Tighter ones like V-COMP / ZENER for Spank or VARIMU for warm gooey, choose which you like i find these sound the best ymmv ofc)

TRACK 1: SEND -> -12db to REVERB RETURN TRACK: "TC Electronics T6000 VSS4HD" - Room or Hall depending on the mood

MASTER BUS:
Pulsar P445 Sidecar - NO Compression but Transformer + Lineamp <3

*** Before i had this setup, i tried everything on the master for slight final "glue/mojo" with everything you can think of, Nfuse, Kelvin, Michelangelo, True Iron, Shadowhills you name it, but nothing does what the Sidecar does, the different flavours of mojo one can get with the transfomers and lineamp PLUS some kind of depth or 3d effect even wihtout using its API EQ or Compressor is unbelivable, 1st plugin that really has this effect, if one could only get 1 plugin GET THIS, makes everything just better.

The Preamp is basicly optional and related to what tone you are going for, to best describe it, when its dialed in heavier you get tones in the ballpark of late live Bill Evans Stuff  like "1980 Molde Jazz Cinema" gig or late Paris stuff -> more bite, tighter but NOT shrill OR when its dialed in smoother you get something like "Bill Evans - Spartacus Love theme into Nardis 8min version" from the solo piano sessions....its actually crazy what the VLC can do dialied in right.

And i i know this sounds like a lot of mumbojumbo, but to be totally honest, this setup brought me from Goosebumps while playing Pianoteq to really tearing up at the right moments, all the extra harmonics and mojo, slight compression plus the reverb like if you are IN the studio room or a jazz club or a Theather or Concert Hall makes for an incredible playing experience. YMMV OFC.

I only had this from listening to certain tunes that really hit hard emotionaly but never from playing myself...

I see that i upload some snippets, im drowning in work and personal stuff atm.

PS: Pianoteq itself has the Limiter OFF and NO FX at all turned on.

This is great info - thanks for sharing, we can see that you’re a busy, busy man with lots on your mind at the moment. I wish you strength and courage !

On a lighter note the last time I cried at the piano was due to too many wrong notes

I looked at VLC but didn’t get it because of iLock - but that’s a whole other story!