Topic by dv

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Topic: Worth getting an iPad?

I'm a PT user on Linux and have been happy with it for a while.

I briefly used a Mac and an iPhone at work and I did not like them for the purpose of doing computer and smartphone things.

I now would like to run PT in a less intrusive and potentially better sounding setup and obviously the first thought went on a Raspberry Pi 5 with either a sound interface or a hat (I have dedicated class-D amplifier, speakers and sub). That would be without a screen, so I'd have to setup VNC and some "virtual" (Bluetooth) keyboard&mouse via my Android phone, which I have done on other Linux machines (not the Pi).

However, seeing how excited people are about PT being available on iOS, I was wondering if I should get an (used, old) iPad which may be equally sleek and equally tucked out of sight and perhaps easier to use.

I was wondering:

1) what model of iPad minimum should I buy for playing only one piano (no morphing or layering) with minimal latency?

2) has anybody done this, ESPECIALLY if it were someone who didn't care for Apple products like myself? If so, did you end up keeping it or going back to Linux?

3) any thing that I should be wary of? For example, with Linux, what works today, will work in the future and I can keep it offline or install new OS in the future, no problem. For Apple, I speculate that I must stay online and apply updates? How about when they stop releasing them, will the device become bricked?

Last edited by dv (24-07-2024 01:11)
Where do I find a list of all posts I upvoted? :(

Reply by kawai_user3535

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Re: Worth getting an iPad?

I'm also Linux user who does not like apple products. I started out with pianoteq on Linux, on my laptop, and have come to prefer to use it on my iPad instead. simpler to hookup, easier to move around, easier to position on or near my piano. It's a sixth generation iPad mini and it works flawlessly with pianoteq,  including with morphing, at 48 kHz or 96 kHz. I keep my iPad offline and have not yet installed any updates I've only been using it for about two months so I'm not sure about the longevity of this approach.

Oh, it also has the benefit of Bluetooth midi  instead of requiring a MIDI-out cord, so that's one less cord I need to worry about.

Last edited by kawai_user3535 (24-07-2024 03:45)

Reply by hebele

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Re: Worth getting an iPad?

Another linux user here. I got a used Lenovo tiny pc running headless linux. It has wifi/bluetooth. It was about same price with rpi5 set up. I can stream bluetooth audio into it. I think it is great for tinkering. However it is not as sleak as an ipad. And you can also use an ipad for digital sheet music. If I was going that route, I would get one with biggest screen.

Reply by revox

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Re: Worth getting an iPad?

I purchased a new iPad 9 a few months ago to permanently sit on my piano. It is the last iPad with an integrated audio interface (headphone jack). Pianoteq works great, and you'll have lower latency than any newer iPad with a class-compliant USB audio interface @ 44k - 64 samples. I think it's the best value for the money.
For USB audio interface comparison performance on iPad see - Comparing interface latency

Reply by snurrfint

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Re: Worth getting an iPad?

revox wrote:

I purchased a new iPad 9 a few months ago to permanently sit on my piano. It is the last iPad with an integrated audio interface (headphone jack). Pianoteq works great, and you'll have lower latency than any newer iPad with a class-compliant USB audio interface @ 44k - 64 samples. I think it's the best value for the money.
For USB audio interface comparison performance on iPad see - Comparing interface latency

I have an Ipad Air with USB audio interface. I have 1.5 ms latency at 44k- 64 samples in Pianoteq. I doubt anyone can experience the difference of 1.5ms latancy and 0.

I would recommend a newer iPad simply because you would only need 1 cable connecting to a Digital piano. Also a newer iPad helps with performance if you would want to run Pianoteq together with other VSTs or effects in a DAW.

Or maybe you are talking about some other latency Im not aware of.

Reply by dv

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Re: Worth getting an iPad?

snurrfint wrote:

Or maybe you are talking about some other latency Im not aware of.

Can't tell about the others, but I speculate that the number you report is the latency in pianoteq itself (irrelevant of the audio chain you use), and not the latency of the audio interface itself. The total latency will be the sum of all of them, and I don't think Pianoteq can know anything about that (for an absurd example: if you use a 300,000km long cable, you will experience an addition 1s of latency) -- so if my understanding is correct, the comparison is the USB-vs-headphone-output latency with the latter winning.

Which USB interface are you using? The iPad itself one or something else?

As far as I'm concerned, new iPads are too expensive, so I'd be still stuck with an old one, and part of my question here is what is the oldest that can run Pianoteq in a satisfactory manner, considering that I don't care about (actually HATE the complexity of) DAWs and the like.

Where do I find a list of all posts I upvoted? :(

Reply by kawai_user3535

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Re: Worth getting an iPad?

My ipad that I mentioned before is from 2021. It runs perfectly with Pro. Never a glitch. It says 5.4ms latency at 96 khz.

For interfaces, I've used a Schiit Modi+ DAC and a Schiit Vali tube amp but I find it not worth the trouble to set that up. So instead I just use a tiny usb-c to aux converter with a built-in DAC. It's great. It's the second one I tried though -- you may find these devices hit or miss for quality, but you might be able to find a good one like I did.

Reply by keymatrix

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Re: Worth getting an iPad?

I work in a bundle of Numa X Piano + iPad Mini of the latest generation + USB-C - USB-B cable - minimal latency and maximum performance!

Reply by vorpal

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Re: Worth getting an iPad?

hebele wrote:

And you can also use an ipad for digital sheet music. If I was going that route, I would get one with biggest screen.


Older iPad mini here (V. 4 iOS 15.8.3)

One of the annoying quirks of iOS is that it stops Pianoteq audio output if I switch to Safari browser to preview sheet music with Pianoteq in the background. Not sure about sheet music apps like forScore.

Also, the mini screen is very limiting for individual note editing as you can't easily select the single note from the graph.

Latency is minimal through my wired USB input and wired headphone output (mine still has the 1/8" output jack that is not on the  newer models) but was crackling on the lowest settings when I tried Bluetooth to speaker output.

*EDIT*

Downloaded and tried Piascore for IOS and it works fine with Pianoteq minimized in the background. It does a neat workaround for Safari where it launches score searches from the app and Safari doesn't override the audio settings so I can browse scores through Safari launched by Piascore and play Pianoteq... take that, Apple

Last edited by vorpal (19-01-2025 18:40)
1929 Baldwin C 6'3" grand with ProRecord module
Pianoteq Pro 8.4 iPad Mini + USB Cable

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Reply by vorpal

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Re: Worth getting an iPad?

kawai_user3535 wrote:

My ipad that I mentioned before is from 2021. It runs perfectly with Pro. Never a glitch. It says 5.4ms latency at 96 khz.

For interfaces, I've used a Schiit Modi+ DAC and a Schiit Vali tube amp but I find it not worth the trouble to set that up. So instead I just use a tiny usb-c to aux converter with a built-in DAC. It's great. It's the second one I tried though -- you may find these devices hit or miss for quality, but you might be able to find a good one like I did.

I bought a small stereo headphone amp for the iPad from Amazon as I found I couldn't get enough output volume through the iPad headphone jack. Unit was faulty out of the box and I sent it back. Found reviews online with similar complaints... cheap audio is cheap audio.

1929 Baldwin C 6'3" grand with ProRecord module
Pianoteq Pro 8.4 iPad Mini + USB Cable

vorpal's Website

Reply by snurrfint

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Re: Worth getting an iPad?

dv wrote:
snurrfint wrote:

Or maybe you are talking about some other latency Im not aware of.

Can't tell about the others, but I speculate that the number you report is the latency in pianoteq itself (irrelevant of the audio chain you use), and not the latency of the audio interface itself. The total latency will be the sum of all of them, and I don't think Pianoteq can know anything about that (for an absurd example: if you use a 300,000km long cable, you will experience an addition 1s of latency) -- so if my understanding is correct, the comparison is the USB-vs-headphone-output latency with the latter winning.

Which USB interface are you using? The iPad itself one or something else?

As far as I'm concerned, new iPads are too expensive, so I'd be still stuck with an old one, and part of my question here is what is the oldest that can run Pianoteq in a satisfactory manner, considering that I don't care about (actually HATE the complexity of) DAWs and the like.

That absurd example goes for all setups. I can happely report to you that my cable is less than 40 cm. I dont use an audio interface. Midi is sent through usb which is extreamly fast. Faster than sound itself I would assume. Then pianoteq is generating the sound and it is sent back to the instrument with the same usb cable. Its essentially no input lag what so ever.

I can't tell the difference with pianoteq and playing the built in sounds of my instrument.

Its likely slightly more than 1.5ms delay from pressing a key to hearing it through the speakers but not much more.

Headphones use USB audi for gaming nowadays and most midi controllers use midi throu usb too. I doubt there is any delay worth mentioning. If there was. I would feel it since I have been playing digitals pianos for a damn long time. If I don't notice it, you wont either.

heres a video of a similar setup with usb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiuuuWfmf1k