Topic by Professor Leandro Duarte

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Topic: What is "Spectral Modeling"?

There is a new standalone VST called "MetaPiano" which appears to be a competitor to Pianoteq. However, instead of Physical Modeling, it uses a technique called Spectral Modeling. According to the website, this process analyzes a real sound and then stacks sine waves to accurately reproduce the characteristic frequencies and overall sound of the source. Sampleson recorded his grand piano samples in a quaint, secluded studio in Patagonia, then used that as input to his Spectral Engine 2.0. This generates sound every time it is played, making each note unique as they are created in real time. But for me, it was not clear the differences between Physical Modeling (Pianoteq) and Spectral Modeling (Metapiano).
If anyone can help me understand, I'd appreciate it.

Last edited by Professor Leandro Duarte (02-11-2022 04:55)
Respeito, Esforço e Sabedoria

Reply by DEZ

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Re: What is "Spectral Modeling"?

A quick search reveals that Spectral “Modelling” is not modelling but synthesis. Just as a Hammond Organ builds up tone by adding harmonics to a fundamental this form of synthesis does the same to approximate any given sound. Therefore it is limited in its scope unlike Physical Modelling which builds its sound through a mathematical model of the physical object.

It’s a bit like comparing a Lego model of a human head (Spectral Synthesis) and a beautifully crafted clay model by a skilled artist (Physical Modelling). I know which gives me the greatest pleasure…

Spectral Synthesis is limited to analysis of sampled data. It is limited to the number of sine waves (the smaller the Lego bricks the greater the detail.) And it is limited in its approach.

I had a listen to the provided recordings of Sampleton’s MetaPiano and have to say was not impressed with the tone or flat sound I heard. This might be due to their original recordings, their inaccurate sine wave analysis or the limitations of Spectral Synthesis.

Certainly not a competitor to Modartt’s mathematical modelling. And yes, I read their attack on Physical Modelling too!

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: What is "Spectral Modeling"?

Physical modelling synthesis vs spectral modelling synthesis in these articles:

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/jnmr/Ph...eling.html

https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/jnmr/Sp...eling.html

Last edited by Key Fumbler (02-11-2022 07:51)

Reply by dazric

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Re: What is "Spectral Modeling"?

MetaPiano clearly has a long way to go, but it's improving, and I think it's one to watch. The attack sound is actually pretty good, shame it's all downhill from there!

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: What is "Spectral Modeling"?

The most important thing in true physical modelling, the one that built sound from core, is the fact it can emulate all the relations that can change aspects of sound. So far pianoteq appears to be the only physical modelling for piano that creates the sound from core, string vibration, and add the other components that alter the sound (soundboard, harp, case, lid etc..) creating a piano sound as we know.

If I understood right, spectrall modelling can't do that, working more like a way to reduce size of sampling by recreating the sound of a recorded note. In other words, if would be more like a advanced MP3 than a true modelling of an instrument.

  It's difficult to imagine some company would invest to create a true physical modelling piano to compete with pianoteq. At this point they would need to invest too much for too long to reach a quality and versatlility to be able to rival pianoteq.

Last edited by Beto-Music (02-11-2022 17:08)

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: What is "Spectral Modeling"?

Arturia play around with physically modelled piano amongst many other emulations. It's not in Pianoteq's league but it's pretty decent for a big discount sales bundle filler.

Who knows what techniques they have "borrowed" over time too.

Reply by Fannon

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Re: What is "Spectral Modeling"?

Key Fumbler wrote:

Arturia play around with physically modelled piano amongst many other emulations. It's not in Pianoteq's league but it's pretty decent for a big discount sales bundle filler.

Who knows what techniques they have "borrowed" over time too.

As far as I've heard from forum rumors, Arturia is actually using part of pianoteq engine inside. But no idea how much of Pianoteq is really inside Arturia Piano V. I assume the actual piano models and presets are created by Arturia.