Topic by BKBroiler

  • Avatar
  • BKBroiler
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-08-2022
  • Posts: 40

Topic: Is Pianoteq limited by the controller's polyphony?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does the keyboard's built-in polyphony limit Pianoteq in any way?

I'm getting back into piano after a 10-year hiatus, and ordered a Roland FP10, but it has only 96 note polyphony. I believe that only affects the onboard synth, not anything upstream over MIDI like Pianoteq, but I wanted to get a 100% confirmation on this point first. Otherwise I'll consider the FP30X instead which is 350$ CAD more expensive than the FP10. But I plan on using Pianoteq with it mostly. I may splurge to get the FP90X instead, if I'm blown away by it.

I used to be OK (intermediary) but played mostly Bach and Mozart and the like, and the keyboard repetition rate on my old Kawai MP8 Mk-ii sucked, so I wanted something with triple sensors and escapement so I wouldn't get so frustrated playing fast trills and so on.

I will be going to a local shop to compare the FP10 and FP90X, plus the Yamaha P-515 to see if the tripling in price for better action actually results in a genuine improvement to repetition rate, but wanted to confirm here first about Pianoteq.

Thanks!

ps if there are any other portable keyboards I should make sure to try, let me know. If I change my mind I'll return the FP10 (without opening the box), but I think I'll be happy spending a grand Canadian instead of three and a half if I can get some decent trills going with the FP10's triple sensor. I'm hoping it provides a better, less frustrating/limiting experience than my old Kawai.

Last edited by BKBroiler (22-08-2022 00:33)

Reply by BarbaraRB

  • Avatar
  • BarbaraRB
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 06-03-2022
  • Posts: 290

Re: Is Pianoteq limited by the controller's polyphony?

BKBroiler wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does the keyboard's built-in polyphony limit Pianoteq in any way?

I'm getting back into piano after a 10-year hiatus, and ordered a Roland FP10, but it has only 96 note polyphony. I believe that only affects the onboard synth, not anything upstream over MIDI like Pianoteq, but I wanted to get a 100% confirmation on this point first. Otherwise I'll consider the FP30X instead which is 350$ CAD more expensive than the FP10. But I plan on using Pianoteq with it mostly. I may splurge to get the FP90X instead, if I'm blown away by it.

I used to be OK (intermediary) but played mostly Bach and Mozart and the like, and the keyboard repetition rate on my old Kawai MP8 Mk-ii sucked, so I wanted something with triple sensors and escapement so I wouldn't get so frustrated playing fast trills and so on.

I will be going to a local shop to compare the FP10 and FP90X, plus the Yamaha P-515 to see if the tripling in price for better action actually results in a genuine improvement to repetition rate, but wanted to confirm here first about Pianoteq.

Thanks!

ps if there are any other portable keyboards I should make sure to try, let me know. If I change my mind I'll return the FP10 (without opening the box), but I think I'll be happy spending a grand Canadian instead of three and a half if I can get some decent trills going with the FP10's triple sensor. I'm hoping it provides a better, less frustrating/limiting experience than my old Kawai.

If you want to hear the incredible results you can get with the FP 10 and Pianoteq, listen to Chris Koko on YouTube. Here's a link to just one of his recordings. And he's only using the plastic foot switch!

https://youtu.be/tpaCYzGk9t4?list=RDtpaCYzGk9t4

Reply by Key Fumbler

  • Avatar
  • Key Fumbler
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 20-10-2018
  • Posts: 1,518

Re: Is Pianoteq limited by the controller's polyphony?

BKBroiler wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does the keyboard's built-in polyphony limit Pianoteq in any way?

A keyboard's built in polyphony limit is all about the internal sounds only, it's not related to the MIDI over USB.

Reply by BarbaraRB

  • Avatar
  • BarbaraRB
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 06-03-2022
  • Posts: 290

Re: Is Pianoteq limited by the controller's polyphony?

Key Fumbler wrote:
BKBroiler wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does the keyboard's built-in polyphony limit Pianoteq in any way?

A keyboard's built in polyphony limit is all about the internal sounds only, it's not related to the MIDI over USB.

That's another huge benefit to using Piamoteq! If you are worried about being limited by the polyphony limits of your keyboard, Pianoteq removes that concern.

Reply by BKBroiler

  • Avatar
  • BKBroiler
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-08-2022
  • Posts: 40

Re: Is Pianoteq limited by the controller's polyphony?

Thanks everyone! That's what I thought.

Reply by BKBroiler

  • Avatar
  • BKBroiler
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-08-2022
  • Posts: 40

Re: Is Pianoteq limited by the controller's polyphony?

BarbaraRB wrote:

If you want to hear the incredible results you can get with the FP 10 and Pianoteq, listen to Chris Koko on YouTube. Here's a link to just one of his recordings. And he's only using the plastic foot switch!

I wasn't too impressed by his playing ability (certainly better than myself though), to really stress the limits of what the FP10's repetition rate is, but I did go down the rabbit hole a bit and found a good video of the Yamaha P-515 where the woman was doing super fast single finger trills and it was handling it like a champ. Gonna go down to my local piano shop to try out some key actions shortly, to compare the FP10 and FP90X with the Yamaha. I'd rather pay double for the Yamaha and be perfectly satisfied than a grand for the FP10 (tax in) and feel let-down. But I hope the FP10 is good enough for me to grow back into.

I'll have to figure out what to do with my MP8-ii, if it's worth anything on the used market, or if I should donate it. I'd rather it get a good home than just sitting there as it has been for the past ten years.

Reply by BKBroiler

  • Avatar
  • BKBroiler
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-08-2022
  • Posts: 40

Re: Is Pianoteq limited by the controller's polyphony?

Just got back from testing Roland FP10 through 90X, and the Yamaha P-515.

I wish I hadn't, now I think I'll splurge for the 90X, it just feels so good to play.

P-515 is a tad faster on repetitions maybe, but the 90X just feels so much better overall I think.

Contrary to what many reviews of the Yamaha say, with the keys being too heavy, I found it a bit lighter than the 90X's PHA-50 action (which could be a pro for faster playing but I'm sure I'd get used to either one). But the 90X is definitely the one I want. The physical modeler is pretty cool, I look forward to comparing it.

The FP10 I found OK, it's much better than my old Kawai MP8-ii for fast repetitions but it just doesn't feel nearly as good as the fully wooden keys on my MP8. I'll probably sell it.

Reply by Zaskar

  • Avatar
  • Zaskar
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Hannover, Germany
  • Registered: 12-10-2017
  • Posts: 115

Re: Is Pianoteq limited by the controller's polyphony?

I went for the FP-30 (back then FP-30X wasn't out) instead of the FP-10.

FP-10 only supports one pedal (sustain) and "normal" half-pedaling with midi values of 0,64 and 127.
The FP-30 with the stand sports three pedals of which two of them (una corda and sustain) are continuous pedals,
i.e smooth pedaling with values from 0 to 127.

"Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes."

Reply by BKBroiler

  • Avatar
  • BKBroiler
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-08-2022
  • Posts: 40

Re: Is Pianoteq limited by the controller's polyphony?

Zaskar wrote:

I went for the FP-30 (back then FP-30X wasn't out) instead of the FP-10.

FP-10 only supports one pedal (sustain) and "normal" half-pedaling with midi values of 0,64 and 127.
The FP-30 with the stand sports three pedals of which two of them (una corda and sustain) are continuous pedals,
i.e smooth pedaling with values from 0 to 127.

With Pianoteq, can't an FP10 owner just use a USB-based 3-pedal system instead of one wired straight into the keyboard itself?

Or does it have to be plugged in directly to get the full control.

I would definitely miss a continuous sustain pedal, but I don't think I've ever used sostenudo or una corda on any geniune concert grand I ever played, nor would I probably miss it TBH. I think sustain is enough for me. But anyway, I'm probably gonna save up for the FP90X instead, I just love the feel so much. I already cancelled my FP10 order from BestBuy after trying it in person this morning.

I think I could be happy with the Yamaha too, but it also feels like a keyboard to me instead of a real piano, whereas the 90X just feels right.

Reply by Zaskar

  • Avatar
  • Zaskar
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Hannover, Germany
  • Registered: 12-10-2017
  • Posts: 115

Re: Is Pianoteq limited by the controller's polyphony?

Of course you can use a USB triple pedal on your computer,
but when you want to play the piano without a computer you are screwed with the FP-10.
No una corda, no sostenuto.

If it doesn't matter anyways and you also picked a different model then consider my post obsolete.

Last edited by Zaskar (22-08-2022 19:04)
"Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes."

Reply by BKBroiler

  • Avatar
  • BKBroiler
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-08-2022
  • Posts: 40

Re: Is Pianoteq limited by the controller's polyphony?

Zaskar wrote:

Of course you can use a USB triple pedal on your computer,
but when you want to play the piano without a computer you are screwed with the FP-10.
No una corda, no sostenuto.

I'm not a touring musician and only use my gear in my living room near my PC anyway, so it's not a big deal. But yeah, if I were to travel it would matter. In that case I wouldn't even consider an FP10 probably anyway. Regardless, as much as the FP10 feels like a great bargain, I just couldn't get excited about owning one after trying the FP90X right next to it.

Although, TBH the Yamaha feels like it might be slightly better for Bach or anything with single note repetitions. But even the FP10 is leagues better in that regard compared to my old 3000$ MP8-ii. It's great when tech advances, though.

Reply by Zaskar

  • Avatar
  • Zaskar
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Hannover, Germany
  • Registered: 12-10-2017
  • Posts: 115

Re: Is Pianoteq limited by the controller's polyphony?

BKBroiler wrote:

It's great when tech advances, though.

Yes indeed.
I think the PHA-4 standard keyboard is the best bang for your buck in it's price region.

"Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes."

Reply by BarbaraRB

  • Avatar
  • BarbaraRB
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 06-03-2022
  • Posts: 290

Re: Is Pianoteq limited by the controller's polyphony?

BKBroiler wrote:
BarbaraRB wrote:

If you want to hear the incredible results you can get with the FP 10 and Pianoteq, listen to Chris Koko on YouTube. Here's a link to just one of his recordings. And he's only using the plastic foot switch!

I wasn't too impressed by his playing ability (certainly better than myself though), to really stress the limits of what the FP10's repetition rate is, but I did go down the rabbit hole a bit and found a good video of the Yamaha P-515 where the woman was doing super fast single finger trills and it was handling it like a champ. Gonna go down to my local piano shop to try out some key actions shortly, to compare the FP10 and FP90X with the Yamaha. I'd rather pay double for the Yamaha and be perfectly satisfied than a grand for the FP10 (tax in) and feel let-down. But I hope the FP10 is good enough for me to grow back into.

I'll have to figure out what to do with my MP8-ii, if it's worth anything on the used market, or if I should donate it. I'd rather it get a good home than just sitting there as it has been for the past ten years.

I love his playing, although it isn't super fast, especially in that mix. However, there is no way the FP 10 is even in the same universe as the FP 90x, which is a beast, has a superb action (Roland's best), with real wooden keys, and so many capabilities the FP 10 does not. I personally would not want an FP 10, but it intrigued me how much can be done in combination with Pianoteq. The FP 10 also has limited connectivity.

If you can afford it, you'll probably never outgrow the 90x. But you would probably want the matching stand, which makes it more like a console, and a good bench.

Reply by BarbaraRB

  • Avatar
  • BarbaraRB
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 06-03-2022
  • Posts: 290

Re: Is Pianoteq limited by the controller's polyphony?

BKBroiler wrote:

Just got back from testing Roland FP10 through 90X, and the Yamaha P-515.

I wish I hadn't, now I think I'll splurge for the 90X, it just feels so good to play.

P-515 is a tad faster on repetitions maybe, but the 90X just feels so much better overall I think.

Contrary to what many reviews of the Yamaha say, with the keys being too heavy, I found it a bit lighter than the 90X's PHA-50 action (which could be a pro for faster playing but I'm sure I'd get used to either one). But the 90X is definitely the one I want. The physical modeler is pretty cool, I look forward to comparing it.

The FP10 I found OK, it's much better than my old Kawai MP8-ii for fast repetitions but it just doesn't feel nearly as good as the fully wooden keys on my MP8. I'll probably sell it.


You can adjust the hardness of the action to your taste.  Also, the store might take your old keyboard in trade, for a credit. It wouldn't be worth much, from what you've written, but it would help a little bit and get it out of the house.

Last edited by BarbaraRB (22-08-2022 20:59)

Reply by Key Fumbler

  • Avatar
  • Key Fumbler
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 20-10-2018
  • Posts: 1,518

Re: Is Pianoteq limited by the controller's polyphony?

I'm guessing you might get equivalent of around £300-£350+ for the MP8 mkii  (if pristine)  for it on eBay - if for instance buyer collects, after real world haggling..
The action if it's still good should be at least equal to entry level digital pianos but feel nicer. It probably still has better sounds than an entry-level keyboard too, with greater polyphony than the bottom models. Somebody will probably pay the extra for the nicer feeling action - if the keybed isn't a little knackered?

Perhaps a slight underestimate? however "Reverb" website tends to be a little expensive I find:
https://reverb.com/item/3378793-kawai-mp8-mkii

Looking more carefully that listing is 6 years old. Also it doesn't say if the keyboard sold or not - and it says it had 0 offers. I would think for £350 it would go, if it's in really good nick.

Last edited by Key Fumbler (22-08-2022 22:15)