Topic: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
The Garritan one is very wet. The Pianoteq demo is very dry but also sounds less noisy when many notes are played at once....
- Doremi
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- Key Fumbler
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Doremi wrote:
The Garritan one is very wet. The Pianoteq demo is very dry but also sounds less noisy when many notes are played at once....
Hi Doremi,
Not sure what you are referring to.
There is no official CFX model for Pianoteq. There has been a few user made presets based around other piano models designed to approximate the CFX sound though.
- Doremi
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Key Fumbler wrote:
Doremi wrote:The Garritan one is very wet. The Pianoteq demo is very dry but also sounds less noisy when many notes are played at once....
Hi Doremi,
Not sure what you are referring to.There is no official CFX model for Pianoteq. There has been a few user made presets based around other piano models designed to approximate the CFX sound though.
I assumed the Yamaha in the demo was the CFX...
It's hard to tell if I'd be content with the default Steinway from the demo. I wish it had a full keys trial.
- BarbaraRB
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Doremi wrote:
The Garritan one is very wet. The Pianoteq demo is very dry but also sounds less noisy when many notes are played at once....
What do you mean when you say these models are "wet" or "dry"?
- Key Fumbler
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
BarbaraRB wrote:
Doremi wrote:The Garritan one is very wet. The Pianoteq demo is very dry but also sounds less noisy when many notes are played at once....
What do you mean when you say these models are "wet" or "dry"?
Dry means without effects FX. Wet means with effects (shortened to FX). You can have a wet/dry ratio. When someone says a wet sound they are implying a lot of reverb typically.
Doremi wrote:
Key Fumbler wrote:Doremi wrote:The Garritan one is very wet. The Pianoteq demo is very dry but also sounds less noisy when many notes are played at once....
Hi Doremi,
Not sure what you are referring to.There is no official CFX model for Pianoteq. There has been a few user made presets based around other piano models designed to approximate the CFX sound though.
I assumed the Yamaha in the demo was the CFX...
It's hard to tell if I'd be content with the default Steinway from the demo. I wish it had a full keys trial.
It's apparently modelled on the Yamaha Concert 5 piano.
- Doremi
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Key Fumbler wrote:
It's apparently modelled on the Yamaha Concert 5 piano.
What's that?
- Key Fumbler
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Doremi wrote:
Key Fumbler wrote:It's apparently modelled on the Yamaha Concert 5 piano.
What's that?
You've got Google too!
- Doremi
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Key Fumbler wrote:
Doremi wrote:Key Fumbler wrote:It's apparently modelled on the Yamaha Concert 5 piano.
What's that?
You've got Google too!
Thought you were talking about a VST. Not sure how that's relevant.
- Key Fumbler
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Doremi wrote:
Thought you were talking about a VST. Not sure how that's relevant.
All Pianoteq piano instruments (apart from the K2 model) are modelled on real world specific piano models.
The Yamaha CFX (you brought up) is a different real world piano model to the C5.
CFX being the top of the range . C5 being much more common and thus more famous, as heard on thousands of recordings.
YC5 is based on C5.
- Pianoteqenthusiast
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Key Fumbler wrote:
Doremi wrote:Thought you were talking about a VST. Not sure how that's relevant.
All Pianoteq piano instruments (apart from the K2 model) are modelled on real world specific piano models.
The Yamaha CFX (you brought up) is a different real world piano model to the C5.
CFX being the top of the range . C5 being much more common and thus more famous, as heard on thousands of recordings.YC5 is based on C5.
Just a matter of curiosity, how do you know YC5 is based on C5? Modartt does not mention it (unlike the other pianos where they say the piano model). Modartt: ”YC5 is modelled from a well known Japanese grand piano”.
For some special reason they don't mention Yamaha C5 - I remember I was wondering about it long ago….
Best wishes,
Stig
- Key Fumbler
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Pianoteqenthusiast wrote:
Key Fumbler wrote:Doremi wrote:Thought you were talking about a VST. Not sure how that's relevant.
All Pianoteq piano instruments (apart from the K2 model) are modelled on real world specific piano models.
The Yamaha CFX (you brought up) is a different real world piano model to the C5.
CFX being the top of the range . C5 being much more common and thus more famous, as heard on thousands of recordings.YC5 is based on C5.
Just a matter of curiosity, how do you know YC5 is based on C5? Modartt does not mention it (unlike the other pianos where they say the piano model). Modartt: ”YC5 is modelled from a well known Japanese grand piano”.
For some special reason they don't mention Yamaha C5 - I remember I was wondering about it long ago….Best wishes,
Stig
Hi Stig,
Actually I haven't even compared the string length - and maybe they would change that slightly anyway if they wanted since it's not an officially licensed model.
Evidently at the time of writing Modartt and Yamaha haven't got a contract going with YC5 hence the name; same with the CP80 - it's not explicitly called Yamaha CP80 in the program itself. I guess since KIViR is supposed to be free they get away with referring to Yamaha in the write up. Or maybe because it's out of patent and Yamaha still make a version of the C5 piano?
I suppose they could allude to the model a bit more overtly. Perhaps have footage of a C5 but without the logo being captured, but what would be the point? I believe (together with the C7) it is the most common Japanese piano used in rock pop and jazz - as per the Alicia Keys model (Phil Best has a comparison video on that).
You could always stretch the strings to the YC7 length, or CFX too. They would have called it something like Y-CFX if they meant it to be the flagship. Also it might be considered a bit of an insult to call that the Rock piano.
Last edited by Key Fumbler (19-08-2022 12:17)
- Pianoteqenthusiast
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Key Fumbler wrote:
Pianoteqenthusiast wrote:Key Fumbler wrote:All Pianoteq piano instruments (apart from the K2 model) are modelled on real world specific piano models.
The Yamaha CFX (you brought up) is a different real world piano model to the C5.
CFX being the top of the range . C5 being much more common and thus more famous, as heard on thousands of recordings.YC5 is based on C5.
Just a matter of curiosity, how do you know YC5 is based on C5? Modartt does not mention it (unlike the other pianos where they say the piano model). Modartt: ”YC5 is modelled from a well known Japanese grand piano”.
For some special reason they don't mention Yamaha C5 - I remember I was wondering about it long ago….Best wishes,
Stig
Hi Stig,
Actually I haven't even compared the string length - and maybe they would change that slightly anyway if they wanted since it's not an officially licensed model.Evidently at the time of writing Modartt and Yamaha haven't got a contract going with YC5 hence the name; same with the CP80 - it's not explicitly called Yamaha CP80 in the program itself. I guess since KIViR is supposed to be free they get away with referring to Yamaha in the write up. Or maybe because it's out of patent and Yamaha still make a version of the C5 piano?
I suppose they could allude to the model a bit more overtly. Perhaps have footage of a C5 but without the logo being captured, but what would be the point? I believe (together with the C7) it is the most common Japanese piano used in rock pop and jazz - as per the Alicia Keys model (Phil Best has a comparison video on that).
You could always stretch the strings to the YC7 length, or CFX too. They would have called it something like Y-CFX if they meant it to be the flagship. Also it might be considered a bit of an insult to call that the Rock piano.
Thank you, Key Fumbler, for your interesting answer and your solid arguments that explain the case - ”Modartt and Yamaha haven't got a contract going with YC5”.
I appreciate the time you committed to providing me with detailed and constructive feedback. Your comments were helpful and raised a few issues I hadn't considered. I’m grateful. We really need you in this forum
Best wishes,
Stig
- mfiadeiro
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Garritan’s Yamaha CFX is a sampled piano. It has a nice timbre and good playability. It was recorded at Abbey Road Studions (Studio One, I believe) with top notch mics and equipment. It uses a free player (Aria) but has a bit slow loading time. Nevertheless, I love it. Very Nice.
Pianoteq is a system of modeled pianos (various brands and models) and for me is even better! The sound is generated live, not reproduced. (no layer switching, awesome dynamics, excellent playability, small size, instant loading time, unbelievable customizability, etc.).
One other advantage is that is being actively worked on and it's getting better as time goes by.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Last edited by mfiadeiro (19-08-2022 16:45)
- Key Fumbler
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Pianoteqenthusiast wrote:
Key Fumbler wrote:Pianoteqenthusiast wrote:Just a matter of curiosity, how do you know YC5 is based on C5? Modartt does not mention it (unlike the other pianos where they say the piano model). Modartt: ”YC5 is modelled from a well known Japanese grand piano”.
For some special reason they don't mention Yamaha C5 - I remember I was wondering about it long ago….Best wishes,
Stig
Hi Stig,
Actually I haven't even compared the string length - and maybe they would change that slightly anyway if they wanted since it's not an officially licensed model.Evidently at the time of writing Modartt and Yamaha haven't got a contract going with YC5 hence the name; same with the CP80 - it's not explicitly called Yamaha CP80 in the program itself. I guess since KIViR is supposed to be free they get away with referring to Yamaha in the write up. Or maybe because it's out of patent and Yamaha still make a version of the C5 piano?
I suppose they could allude to the model a bit more overtly. Perhaps have footage of a C5 but without the logo being captured, but what would be the point? I believe (together with the C7) it is the most common Japanese piano used in rock pop and jazz - as per the Alicia Keys model (Phil Best has a comparison video on that).
You could always stretch the strings to the YC7 length, or CFX too. They would have called it something like Y-CFX if they meant it to be the flagship. Also it might be considered a bit of an insult to call that the Rock piano.
Thank you, Key Fumbler, for your interesting answer and your solid arguments that explain the case - ”Modartt and Yamaha haven't got a contract going with YC5”.
I appreciate the time you committed to providing me with detailed and constructive feedback. Your comments were helpful and raised a few issues I hadn't considered. I’m grateful. We really need you in this forum
Best wishes,
Stig
Thanks for your kind words. The sentence you referred to I could have worded better.
Modartt have not got an official license to use the Yamaha brand or product name for YC5 .
I have no idea if they have approached them for this, or indeed if it is worth their while, either commercially or from the likelihood of attainment perspective.
It might be that as a technology company themselves they might want more control over the final result, which might not appeal to Modartt. I imagine there are so many variables when going down the official licencing route, especially when dealing with another technology company as opposed to a traditional piano manufacturer.
Who knows though maybe one day we'll see one of the major digital piano or workstation manufacturers sporting "Pianoteq inside" or something like that!
Last edited by Key Fumbler (19-08-2022 16:34)
- Doremi
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
I didn't know the piano sounds were copyrighted...
Anyway, what I like about Garritan is more the "richness" of the sound than the CFX itself. Pianoteq's default Steinway sounds great but the presentation is a bit boring without hearing the room/studio.
- Key Fumbler
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Doremi wrote:
I didn't know the piano sounds were copyrighted...
Brand names and products are normally copyrighted.
Doremi wrote:
Anyway, what I like about Garritan is more the "richness" of the sound than the CFX itself. Pianoteq's default Steinway sounds great but the presentation is a bit boring without hearing the room/studio.
You can do a lot with the Pianoteq internal reverbs and delays, and choosing microphone positioning too. If you only have the Stage version then you'll have to choose from the limited microphone positions from the presets available. That still gives you a decent amount of scope for change, however Standard and Pro are much better in that regard as you can move, chop and change the microphones to your heart's desire.
Alternatively you could use any one of the many external reverbs within a DAW. Lots of folks do that. Indeed that is the normal way to integrate the piano sounds with other sounds in a project.
- BarbaraRB
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Doremi wrote:
I didn't know the piano sounds were copyrighted...
Anyway, what I like about Garritan is more the "richness" of the sound than the CFX itself. Pianoteq's default Steinway sounds great but the presentation is a bit boring without hearing the room/studio.
I don't think the sound can be copyrighted -- just the name. If the sound could be copyrighted, how could anyone perform -- let alone record -- on a piano.
- Key Fumbler
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
BarbaraRB wrote:
I don't think the sound can be copyrighted -- just the name. If the sound could be copyrighted, how could anyone perform -- let alone record -- on a piano.
You can use sample based instruments how you like within the context of music, sound design or whatever. However you can't take the samples from a sample based instrument and turn them into your own commercial virtual instrument. So in that regard the sounds of an acoustic instrument or whatever could be copyrighted to a very specific recording session.
That said I don't know if that's ever been proven in practice?
- BarbaraRB
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Key Fumbler wrote:
BarbaraRB wrote:I don't think the sound can be copyrighted -- just the name. If the sound could be copyrighted, how could anyone perform -- let alone record -- on a piano.
You can use sample based instruments how you like within the context of music, sound design or whatever. However you can't take the samples from a sample based instrument and turn them into your own commercial virtual instrument. So in that regard the sounds of an acoustic instrument or whatever could be copyrighted to a very specific recording session.
That said I don't know if that's ever been proven in practice?
However, all sample based instruments are based on a real instrument. So, for example all the "Model D's" out there are based on a Steinway Model D. They can't use the Steinway name, which is trademarked, but Steinway can't stop them from using/sampling the sounds of the piano, which they --or somebody -- purchased, and marketing it in a recognizable/ coded way. Wink, wink. So the sounds can't be protected, or this whole industry wouldn't exist. Pianoteq licensed the names, which is rare, though not unique. I think that some names are licensed by others, though not many.
Last edited by BarbaraRB (24-08-2022 18:05)
- BarbaraRB
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Doremi wrote:
The Garritan one is very wet. The Pianoteq demo is very dry but also sounds less noisy when many notes are played at once....
What do "wet" and "dry" mean in relation to piano sounds?
- Doremi
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
BarbaraRB wrote:
Doremi wrote:The Garritan one is very wet. The Pianoteq demo is very dry but also sounds less noisy when many notes are played at once....
What do "wet" and "dry" mean in relation to piano sounds?
It means there's a lot of color added to it, from the surrounding room acoustics, the furniture (including the piano), mics placement.
So playing a very dry sound works best for me when playing through large speakers in high volume, becausae my own room adds all the necessary color, while playing through headphones the best would be wet, preferably binaural, to make it sound more natural.
Last edited by Doremi (30-08-2022 06:23)
- BarbaraRB
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
Doremi wrote:
BarbaraRB wrote:Doremi wrote:The Garritan one is very wet. The Pianoteq demo is very dry but also sounds less noisy when many notes are played at once....
What do "wet" and "dry" mean in relation to piano sounds?
It means there's a lot of color added to it, from the surrounding room acoustics, the furniture (including the piano), mics placement.
So playing a very dry sound works best for me when playing through large speakers in high volume, becausae my own room adds all the necessary color, while playing through headphones the best would be wet, preferably binaural, to make it sound more natural.
Thank you!
- joannchr
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
I own both products. In a nutshell they are both equally responsive. Garritan CFX is probably the most responsive of all sampled instruments and can compete with pianoteq provided you have a fast SSD ( minimum 500 MB/s throughput)
Garritan CFX Pro : Unique reverb , the abbey road studio ambience captured by the mics is outstanding and unique
Garritan CFX Con : Only one sound, and lack of bass . You can get tired of having the same CFX sound over and over.
Pianoteq 7.5 Pro : incredible level of tuning. You end up playing the instrument you like. No sample product can do that.
Incredible bass. It gives you goosebumps
Pianoteq 7.5 Con: Need quite some tuning to end up with the sound you want. It is not best friend with system interrupts so best to run it minimised with no other programs running
- aleluman
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Re: How does Pianoteq compare to Garritan's Yamaha's CFX Grand?
I think the main problem with the Garritan is the level of noise in the samples is really high. This is especially noticeable when playing with soft dynamics and with headphones. Pianoteq is completely clean (for obvious reasons).