Instruments selection, different categories (Page 1 of 2)

I already wrote this on the forum once or twice... I would really recommend that you try the sounds of the pianos for a little while before you buy!!!

I have all the instruments and I'm switching from one to the other every day! It is very subjective what you like. Don't forget that steinway d and petrof are 2 pianos each!! don't neglect the U4, I guess. I prefer it to Y5 and K2 ... I really like the Bechstein ...

so. I say: really try them for a week or more, then buy ... and never look back=)

Yes, I agree with the above post, keep playing with the demos until you make your decision. I'd say your analysis is quite perceptive, you're definitely on the right track. YC5 and K2 are something of an aquired taste - I didn't like them at all in earler versions of Pianoteq, they have improved but I'm still lukewarm about them. There are lots of things to like about all the pianos, it's just a matter of personal taste. FWIW I tend to use the Steinway B most often because it's such a good all-rounder. And some people might say that you can't have 'too many Steinways'!

Oh yes, and if you're considering getting Standard, you'll have lots of potential to tweak the pianos to your taste, be able to download new presets from FXP Corner, try morphing and layering...

You can always say never mind the quality feel the width. You could get four pianos for the price of two if you go for the Petrof pack and the D pack, plus another of your choice like the Bechstein or Grotrian.

Also you get the  k i v i r  pack for free - CP80, Errard and Pleyel work with modern music.

That's starting with eight modern pianos, not forgetting the substantially different and cinematic/TV gentle dreamlike felted presets.

srodrigo wrote:

Key Fumbler wrote:

You can always say never mind the quality feel the width. You could get four pianos for the price of two if you go for the Petrof pack and the D pack, plus another of your choice like the Bechstein or Grotrian.

Also you get the  k i v i r  pack for free - CP80, Errard and Pleyel work with modern music.

That's starting with eight modern pianos, not forgetting the substantially different and cinematic/TV gentle dreamlike felted presets.

Thanks for replying!

My issue with the 2x1 packs is that they sound quite similar to me, specially the Steinways D. Maybe the Petrof's are a bit more different between them, I'm still studying them.

Good point about the KIVIR pack I overlooked it. There's certainly some variety to add to the palette. The Errard and the Pleyel sound lovely indeed and might have their use.

I think what's missing if I go all big pianos, even with the KIVIR pack, is something that suits this kind of music (forgive the horrible sound of that Roland ....

I thought the YC5 would suit it well, but I didn't quite like the sound so far on classical recordings, so we'll see.

Yes , for that sound probably start with YC5.
In Standard and Pro you can blend models now too, so a YC5-D might do the trick, who knows!

Model adjustments like custom velocity curves,  hammer settings, along with microphone positioning,  dynamics, compression, EQ and reverb settings will get you a long way tailoring the sound you want.

Indeed the two D's should be similar. I suppose it ought to be worrying for Steinway if they weren't!

The ubiquitous D is the undisputed heavy weight champion of the classical world. It's not really a contest commercially.
The B physical model can sound sweeter though. How much that actually comes down to the modelling differences and how much is the differences of the real world pianos I wouldn't have a clue, you'll have to ask the proper pianists with experience of the real grands here.

Presumably a real D is designed to project more sound into a bigger space where extra sharpness or brightness is a positive or even necessary aspect of their sound.

A great deal can be done in the Stage version, let alone the advanced features of Standard and Pro.

I haven't made my mind up yet. I've got my DP, so now I'm actually playing, which feels a bit different that just listening.

I might get Pro while it's still on sale, although it's 100euros more expensive than waiting for a -20% for Standard on Black Friday. The extra instrument pack would make up for it a bit. I've been researching the hell out of this, and it doesn't look like I'd currently benefit from the 192Khz sample rate though (my laptop works at 48Khz, so I'm limited to that for recording), and I don't think I'd fiddle with tweaking individual notes. So I don't think I'd benefit from the Pro features at all

If you are starting out you don't need it, and perhaps never will.
I haven't got Pro because for me Standard does everything I need. I was happy enough with Stage but I do use Standard only features regularly. If the Pro upgrade had been far, far cheaper I would have taken it up.

If all there was was the Stage version of Pianoteq it would definitely remain my go-to piano plug-in.

I've seen a few guys from time to time jumping all in then selling the Pianoteq bundle pack shortly after.  Buyers regret. I reckon they go in too hard.

I think a lot of guys have an all or nothing mentality. Probably they want it all now when just having the instruments and the top version doesn't actually give you the immediate capability to utilise them fully  - buying into the absolute best control keyboard at the same time could make somebody jaded too I suppose, disillusioned quickly if they don't develop the chops quick sharp!

Yes, I would think so, because of sympathetic resonance. In Pianoteq Standard, the Aliquot string effect can be altered ('Design' panel) - try reducing it and see what you think.

Key Fumbler wrote:

Don't forget you get the KIVIR package with Errard, Pleyel and CP80.  The Pleyel is to me a little closer in tonality to a typical upright than a modern (read more clinical and precise) grand. It bottoms out easily and can be manipulated for historic piano sound or honky-tonk piano sounds.

D should be a given, whatever your tastes.

I like the Grotrian and Steingraeber models, hence clearly YMMV!

Yeah, I have that in mind. I can't try them out on the demo, but I listened to the first two and love them. I was looking into the C4 [EDIT: sorry, I meant U4]... and the Tall preset is really interesting. It even sounds to me similar to the Bluethner. But I think I'll pass on that one.

I'm set on the Bechstein. It's great, I'm getting it no matter what.

Sadly, I don't quite like Grotian and Steingraeber. The latter is very interesting as I think it's the brightest of all the large grands. But I find it too strident, so even if it'd add tonal variety, I think I'll pass. The Grotian still sounds similar to the Ant Petrof.

I've got 3 packs, with 4 pianos [EDIT: plus the free ones ]. I think I'm sorted. I might use the last pack for the harpsichord, which I've tried and LOVE it. It doesn't help me with my recordings, but I love playing baroque, and my sister is a harpsichordist so she could play when we meet during holidays. Either that or the Petrofs, which I like, but maybe I'll pass.

BTW does anyone know whether the offer finishes today, or tomorrow? It says 15th, so I'd imagine the whole 15th is included until midnight.

Key Fumbler wrote:

Don't forget you get the KIVIR package with Errard, Pleyel and CP80.  The Pleyel is to me a little closer in tonality to a typical upright than a modern (read more clinical and precise) grand. It bottoms out easily and can be manipulated for historic piano sound or honky-tonk piano sounds.

D should be a given, whatever your tastes.

I like the Grotrian and Steingraeber models, hence clearly YMMV!

Yeah, I have that in mind. I can't try them out on the demo, but I listened to the first two and love them. I was looking into the C4 [EDIT: sorry, I meant U4]... and the Tall preset is really interesting. It even sounds to me similar to the Bluethner. But I think I'll pass on that one.

I'm set on the Bechstein. It's great, I'm getting it no matter what.

Sadly, I don't quite like Grotian and Steingraeber. The latter is very interesting as I think it's the brightest of all the large grands. But I find it too strident, so even if it'd add tonal variety, I think I'll pass. The Grotian still sounds similar to the Ant Petrof.

I've got 3 packs, with 4 pianos [EDIT: plus the free ones ]. I think I'm sorted. I might use the last pack for the harpsichord, which I've tried and LOVE it. It doesn't help me with my recordings, but I love playing baroque, and my sister is a harpsichordist so she could play when we meet during holidays. Either that or the Petrofs, which I like, but maybe I'll pass.

BTW does anyone know whether the offer finishes today, or tomorrow? It says 15th, so I'd imagine the whole 15th is included until midnight.

BarbaraRB wrote:

The Bechstein is glorious.... Great choice. If you like harpsichords, take a look at the Karsten collection. I love the virginal, which is an early harpsichord, and the Giusti is also beautiful. The Karsten has both, and several other lovely historic pianos. I enjoy playing on instruments the composers might have used.
The Grimaldi harpsichord, one of my favorites, is included in the free KiVir pack, as are some amazing pianofortes.

BarbaraRB wrote:

Listen to the samples os Couperin's Gavotte for both the virginal and the Giusti harpsichord in the Karsten collection to get a sense of the range being offered! I think you and your sister woulove both.

Thanks for your advise! It's a bit difficult to compare because I can't play the free ones yet, but I'd say the Ruckers one sounds better to my ears. The ones that come in the KiVir pack sounds a bit... muffed to me. I like them, but then I listen to the Ruckers and it sounds at a different league. I've sent a few audios to my sister to get her advice too. Maybe you both are right I'll listen to the Karsten collection too. I had a quick look and I liked the virginal, but the Ruckers sounded better to me than the Guisti. It's difficult to decide though (I thought I was done with decision fatigue ).

mprimrose wrote:

srodrigo,

I wasn't certain either what was meant by "until the 15th", so I was cautious and picked up the two instrument packs that I wanted, today, rather than risk missing out by waiting till the last minute.

The Harpsichord instrument pack is fascinating, and I have had great fun in playing Baroque music with it, especially as I can set it to 415 Hz to get the original sound.

Happy playing with what ever your choices are, but jump early rather than risk missing out. Whatever you choose you will enjoy and you can always by more more later, as we all do
Michael

Thanks for the feedback about the Harpsichord pack

Glad that you got your packs before the offer ends. Out of curiosity, which ones did you choose?

Listen to the samples os Couperin's Gavotte for both the virginal and the Giusti harpsichord in the Karsten collection to get a sense of the range being offered! I think you and your sister woulove both.

After weeks of agonizing to make a decision, I went for the Steinway D, Bechstein, Bluethner and Harpsichord. I liked the Karsten and the Petrofs as well, but the 4 packs I ended up choosing felt like the right ones for many reasons.

Thanks very much to everyone for your advice it really helped!

Key Fumbler wrote:

Also you can turn off all the effects (IOW dial down the funk!) on the Hohner Clavinet and use it like it was originally intended:

Key Fumbler,

Thank you for the heads up on the capabilities of the Clavinet D6. I had not looked at it any great detail before I purchased the relevant instrument pack this week. However, now this instrument seems to offer a wealth of musical possibilities.

I am not sure how I get the Spanish Guitar out of the Clavinet D6, but it is proving to be interesting exercise in "what does this slider do?" experimentation. More late nights and rabbit holes are on the cards, I would think.

The Clavinet must have ceased production about the time I started doing electronic music with the analogue Rolands, but I will admit that I was generally ignorant about its abilities and capabilities. It's possibly too late to late, and too expensive to purchase a physical copy of the instrument, so I will have to be content with poking around under the hood of my Pianoteq copy.

If I manage to get a half ways decent Spanish Guitar operational, I'll post the preset as an fxp

Michael

mprimrose wrote:

Key Fumbler wrote:

Also you can turn off all the effects (IOW dial down the funk!) on the Hohner Clavinet and use it like it was originally intended:

Key Fumbler,

Thank you for the heads up on the capabilities of the Clavinet D6. I had not looked at it any great detail before I purchased the relevant instrument pack this week. However, now this instrument seems to offer a wealth of musical possibilities.

I am not sure how I get the Spanish Guitar out of the Clavinet D6, but it is proving to be interesting exercise in "what does this slider do?" experimentation. More late nights and rabbit holes are on the cards, I would think.

The Clavinet must have ceased production about the time I started doing electronic music with the analogue Rolands, but I will admit that I was generally ignorant about its abilities and capabilities. It's possibly too late to late, and too expensive to purchase a physical copy of the instrument, so I will have to be content with poking around under the hood of my Pianoteq copy.

If I manage to get a half ways decent Spanish Guitar operational, I'll post the preset as an fxp

Michael

Yes the glory days for the clavinet were short and sweet. You can buy new though!

The Hohner clavinet model is extremely realistic,  but as with most things if you had money to burn (or a career as a top keyboard player in a famous funk band) you could get hold of a perfect restored unit, or you could buy a reproduction from Vintage Vibe in the States; they also make Rhodes style electric pianos.

The Pianoteq model can easily become other stringed instruments with a bit of fiddling with the model parameters and the FX  in Standard or Pro.
Spanish guitar could be ambitious, look forward to hearing that.

Vibanet, modern recreation:
https://youtu.be/hokw1oG4oQM

Whammy bar added to clavinet!
https://youtu.be/b1bEV_tSuUc

BarbaraRB wrote:

Key Fumbler wrote:

Yes the glory days for the clavinet were short and sweet. You can buy new though!

The Hohner clavinet model is extremely realistic,  but as with most things if you had money to burn (or a career as a top keyboard player in a famous funk band) you could get hold of a perfect restored unit, or you could buy a reproduction from Vintage Vibe in the States; they also make Rhodes style electric pianos.

The Pianoteq model can easily become other stringed instruments with a bit of fiddling with the model parameters and the FX  in Standard or Pro.
Spanish guitar could be ambitious, look forward to hearing that.

Vibanet, modern recreation:
https://youtu.be/hokw1oG4oQM

Whammy bar added to clavinet!
https://youtu.be/b1bEV_tSuUc

Key Fumbler,

Have you ever tried UVI Key Sounds sample library of pianos? They have the Rhodes and others you like as well as a Fazioli and other great keyboard instruments. Well reviewed, small size, although the reviewer rated Pianoteq #1. It was a round up of best virtual pianos. I'm just curious, not shopping, but would be interested to know your experience, if you've tried them.

I have the NI Scarbee stuff and UVI Tacked 88 piano on my drives. I prefer Lounge Lizard and Pianoteq to play. I think the UVI tacked sounds great out the box and I find Pianoteq required a little more adjustment of the presets to get there. That said once adjusted I prefer those physical models anyway.

The Tacked 88 has some fine audio demos. It has great sound. It's nice enough to play but when I play the modelled stuff I feel like I'm playing with an instrument, less so with the samples, however the Tacked 88 is the best sampled electric I've tried so far, and it is genuinely different with the tacked sound..  This preference for modelled seems less logical to me with EPs than acoustic pianos but that difference is still there, despite not having the dynamic range per key or all the internal resonances or interaction with the room.

Simply speaking as a synth guy I find I can also dial in the sounds that I want from physical modelling easier than I can with sampled instruments. The sounds are more malleable.

Maybe I drank the physical modelling kool aid!

If I was a wealthy guy with a top of the range controller keyboard or two I would maybe add the Synchron VSL pianos to a big SSD. Even then I expect I would probably end up playing on Pianoteq, then maybe checking the rendered MIDI results against the Synchron equivalent. That's got an enormous amount of velocity layers so maybe it would be a close run thing on playability? - for your gobbled up drive space, and gobbled up wallet!

BTW I've been playing today and I'm so glad I got the Bluethner, it fits some stuff I'm writing wonderfully. Despite the love/hate it got during the blind tests, it's probably the most interesting, less standard piano sound of all.

BarbaraRB wrote:

Very interesting. Even at my level, I find Pianoteq feels more like a real instrument. I (wasted) a lot of time today listening to the UVA demos. They all sound fabulous, and of course I immediately want everything, but the key is that I can't play the way the people who play the demos do, so It's pointless.

I don't play the way Piet, Phil, Nate, or the other demo wizards here at Pianote do. If I did, I wouldn't want anything more. One sensible thing I'll do is try playing Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy, which I have in a beautiful simplified version, using the K2 preset on the Celesta, which I listened to on Pianoteq today. Then I can post it for my 4 year old great niece, who loves that song. That's a realistic goal.

Re: Synchron... My friend who got me into Pianoteq now prefers the Synchron Bosendorfer. He's a sound engineer, but even more of a beginner than I am. He's obsessive about key action as well and has been through perhaps a dozen pianos. He's now using Roland's FP90x but wants an acoustic.

I'd better be careful what I say, because he could be on the Forum and would recognize himself.

Yes you can fall for the demos.

There are some excellent demos for all kinds of virtual instruments. Obviously if the demos do their job properly you'll end up wanting a multitude of similar products based on the impression of the tracks which can make them seem more unique and interesting.

I suppose it's no different to sports companies promoting with elite athletes or using beautiful actresses and models to sell perfume. Ladies don't suddenly look like super models when they dab a bit behind their ears.

So sad

Key Fumbler wrote:

BarbaraRB wrote:

So sad

..and there's no little violins in Pianoteq..

Oh, God! Worse and worse! 

There's also no *plusK2* preset in celesta. That was created by someone who actually knew what they were doing. I'm devastated.

Key Fumbler wrote:

BarbaraRB wrote:

Oh, God! Worse and worse! 

There's also no *plusK2* preset in celesta. That was created by someone who actually knew what they were doing. I'm devastated.

What do you want from you K2 plus celesta?
A model blend?, both together?  on same MIDI channel or separate channels?
Accentuated stereo imaging - one further left, one for the right?

I like the celesta sound but that's one I haven't picked up yet.
You should experiment for yourself.  You can always go back, save multiple versions and so on.

I want what the demo had for Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy, but I don't know what they did. It has the perfect, sparkling magical quality for that song. I guess I'll have to read the manual and watch some tutorials. I don't have any background sound mixing/engineering.