Technical question - headphones

Thank you, @Primrose and @Key Fumbler. Whatever the cause is, the sound (briefly) went back to normal and then dropped out again in one ear. So it has to be the headphones, not a setting. They are definitely plugged in properly, and they have a really long cable that never gets stressed, but I suspect you are right and that it is the (nondetachable) cable.

In any case, I just ordered another pair because I really like them. I got an open box pair, so got a good price. When they arrive, I'll look for the warranty info and will save it.

If Phillips has a warranty and it covers my present pair I'll have a backup should this happen again.

Just a cost of doing business.

You have my sympathy, Barbara.

As mprimrose says they don't make things like they used to. I made my living a very long time ago repairing circuit boards and other electronics. As the parts got smaller and my eyes got dimmer, I moved on to other aspects of the tech industry from which I've since retired.

Back in the early 1990s, I got myself a Kurzweil K1000 along with a pair of Fostex headphones. My sister got ahold of them and crunched the cable connecting to the jack. I was furious and said the usual nasty words about touching things she wasn't supposed to. At $78 at the time, that was a lot of money for those headphones. Being an electronics tech, I got a new jack and performed some surgery and those $78 headphones lived on for another decade before they finally did fall apart.

More recently, a cheap pair of headphones supplied with my Roland LX-17 broke thanks to my cat who not only stole them and dragged them downstairs, but she also chewed the wires that are soldered to the earpieces! Again, I thought I could perform surgery on these, but sadly this isn't possible. The wires are sealed into the headphone earpiece that are absolutely impossible for anyone except for the robotic machine that put them together to fix them. After struggling for about an hour, I put these in the trash.

Recently, I thought about getting a new pair of Fostex headphones. Looking at the various models, I came across these here:

https://www.amazon.com/Fostex-USA-Headp...B007G8UMP2

These not only look really nice, not that I care about that, but they have replaceable cables. The problem for me is these come at a high cost at $1738 USD. Just think, I thought the $78 I paid so many years ago was bad! In the meantime, I use an ancient pair of gaming headphones I got at a computer store about a decade ago. These Turtle Beach headphones are comfortable and do their job, but don't have the dynamic range of music-quality units. At the moment, these will suffice until I can find something reasonable that won't fall apart easily. And no, the cat isn't allowed in my room any longer!

BarbaraRB wrote:

jcitron wrote:

You have my sympathy, Barbara.

As mprimrose says they don't make things like they used to. I made my living a very long time ago repairing circuit boards and other electronics. As the parts got smaller and my eyes got dimmer, I moved on to other aspects of the tech industry from which I've since retired.

Back in the early 1990s, I got myself a Kurzweil K1000 along with a pair of Fostex headphones. My sister got ahold of them and crunched the cable connecting to the jack. I was furious and said the usual nasty words about touching things she wasn't supposed to. At $78 at the time, that was a lot of money for those headphones. Being an electronics tech, I got a new jack and performed some surgery and those $78 headphones lived on for another decade before they finally did fall apart.

More recently, a cheap pair of headphones supplied with my Roland LX-17 broke thanks to my cat who not only stole them and dragged them downstairs, but she also chewed the wires that are soldered to the earpieces! Again, I thought I could perform surgery on these, but sadly this isn't possible. The wires are sealed into the headphone earpiece that are absolutely impossible for anyone except for the robotic machine that put them together to fix them. After struggling for about an hour, I put these in the trash.

Recently, I thought about getting a new pair of Fostex headphones. Looking at the various models, I came across these here:

https://www.amazon.com/Fostex-USA-Headp...B007G8UMP2

These not only look really nice, not that I care about that, but they have replaceable cables. The problem for me is these come at a high cost at $1738 USD. Just think, I thought the $78 I paid so many years ago was bad! In the meantime, I use an ancient pair of gaming headphones I got at a computer store about a decade ago. These Turtle Beach headphones are comfortable and do their job, but don't have the dynamic range of music-quality units. At the moment, these will suffice until I can find something reasonable that won't fall apart easily. And no, the cat isn't allowed in my room any longer!

Glad to receive your sympathetic reply, and tale of headphone trauma.  I just discovered that it really isn't the headphones that are at fault.  I've been corresponding with Philips and sending them all kinds of information, but I ordered another pair of the exact same headphones online because I really need them.  Well!  The exact same problem recurred, with the brand new headphones, so it is not the headphones that are at fault.  I cancelled the ticket with Philips.

Next, I suspected it was the Eris ProSonus 3.5 speaker.  What I hear, after playing a little bit, is a sort of click that sounds like an electrical short.  At least that's how it sounds to me.  And then one ear cuts out.  This continues intermittently.  I went online to Eris, but once again it is a convoluted process of sending a speaker in for repairs (at my own expense), and if I remove the speaker I can't use Pianoteq.

I played again, using the speaker and no headphones, and everything worked perfectly.

So -- where I am now -- the speakers and the headphones appear to both be working perfectly, but they don't get along with each other.

My solution, because I have such incredibly limited patience with these things, is that I am going to play (mostly) without headphones, just using the speakers and Pianoteq which sounds amazing.  If I don't go crazy playing fortissimo, and I don't blast the sound, I will not damage my relationship with my  neighbors, and it sounds beautiful.  Good to get used to not using headphones.

If I want to practice in the middle of the night or at the crack of dawn (which I often do), I will use the headphones even if I can only listen through one ear much of the time.  That is annoying, but not crippling.

All this bears out my theory/experience that every time you add a new component to a technological system, the things that can go wrong multiply exponentially.  Thank you for your kindness.  I will survive this, and the music never dies.

I was told today, by someone I trust on a different forum, that if I get an audio interface box, it will solve the problems.  He said that Pianoteq is placing too many demands on the laptop's chipset.  This mirrors advice about setting up the system that I read from Hugh Sung, before I even got Pianoteq.  So I'm biting the bullet, following his advice, buying the Audio Interface Box he recommended (which matches my speakers), and I'm going to get a friend who is a computer engineer to help me put it all together. I'll let you know how it works out.  In any case, now that I have it, I never want to be without Pianoteq again.

Hi BarbaraRB and jcitron.

I'm really no expert in PCs but I have no audio issues when using Pianoteq on my i5 HP Omen PC with Asio4All.

I mentioned this some time back that the performance index is higher with Asio4All than when I used an external audio interface (Zoom UAC2 USB3), also jitter appeared less.

I have not considered using/buying an audio interface since using Asio4All. There are benefits with an external audio interface such as balanced audio outputs but I use HI Fi so this feature is not required. Microphone pre-amps are also not required by me as I have a mixing desk.

Nick

I used to have this dragging and poor jitter with an old PC using Pianoteq, this was corrected with a more powerful PC (HP Omen). I then tested my audio interface and Asio4All and found the performance better with Asio4All (although only a slight improvement).

Regarding the PC audio outputs (green jack), I have my PC volume at 65 percent, this seems about the best level to go to my amplifier (Technics Hi Fi), some say 85 percent is line level but I feel it distorts somewhat at this level.

I have seen digital audio outs on some PCs but again Asio4All might not work with this?

I think the most important requirement to playing/using Pianoteq though is a smooth performance, in that one cannot perceive jitter, and that the PC isn't straining with excess fan noise.

Nick

Barbara,

Unfortunately, I have had the same experience occur to me, a number of times during the last year. By jiggling the cable, just below the point where it enters the headphones, I could intermittently re-obtain stereophonic sound. I also found, after some research, that if I eased the plug out of the headphone socket, by about a couple of paper thickness's, the stereophonic sound came back, but again, fleetingly. It is all rather arcane, and I thought that the next stage would involve something nasty with frozen chickens.

The trouble is that there has been a decrease in quality maintenance as a consequence of the proliferation of cheaper headphones on the market. Everyone these days needs to listen to their cat videos or to gossip with colleagues over zoom, hence the proliferation of headsets. With profit margins getting slimmer the first thing to suffer is quality maintenance. If it works heading out of the factory, great, but you are not building a piece of equipment that will last for years, because otherwise, where is your return custom and your profit.

Back in the 80's, when I first got hooked on the electronic production of music, everything cost a fortune, but equipment was built to last. In a niche market, if you antagonise your client base with poor quality, expensive rubbish you very quickly run out of customers. The Roland headphones I bought in the early 80's still work , though I must remember to buy some more foam ear pads to replace the perishing ones.

With a new set of headphones, the soldered connection between the cable and the headset is usually the weak point and one or both connections will fail with constant changing strain on the cable. One used to be able to mend these things, back in the day, but with moulded plastic headsets you can't get inside them to re-solder the loose connection. With the poor connection to the headphone socket, this is a consequence of the low manufacturing tolerance on cheaper jacks; they go into the socket but they don't quite align with the contacts inside the socket. Decent quality jacks are expensive for reasons other than the gold plating.

There were two solutions suggested on the Web. To buy a set of headphones which allow the cable to be plugged in via a jack. This means that any strain on the cable will pull the jack loose from the headset, rather than damaging the internal soldering. The other was to replace the standard headphone jack, at the other end of the cable, with a decent quality one from an electronics store.

My "solution" was to buy a reasonable quality set "for best", which only gets used when i really want to hear what I'm playing around with. I also have a sturdier, cheaper headset and microphone "for gardening", which I use for everyday mucking around, and has a jack and socket inserted into the cable close to the headset. It is not perfect but it will alleviate any major strain on cable by pulling apart.

I would also have a rummage in all of your audio settings to ensure that you haven't inadvertently converted your headphones to mono or single channel, but otherwise, we live in a throwaway society, and all one can do is to buy responsibly once one has identified the problem.

Welcome to Pianoteq, Barbara, I'm sure that you will have as much enjoyment with this application as everyone else has had, and also loads of delighted "Oh I didn't know it could that!" moments.

Michael

Hi jcitron. Although the Zoom UAC2 is a good audio interface, unless you require mic pre amps and balanced audio outputs then I would not at this stage consider buying it. From your description it might be a settings issue, eg having an effects enabled in Windows. I also think if your PC finds it a strain with Asio4All, then an audio interface will not solve this issue.

As a rough guide try; 48 Khz internal sample rate (Pianoteq), 128 samples (making sure Asio4All is adjusted properly), effects in Windows set to 'off'. Also make sure if you are using line-out from PC that you use the green jack. If you are using the headphone out from a laptop (for example) to power speakers (small pc powered speakers for example) be sure to change the output from headphones to speakers, this in the audio setting on your laptop.

Let me know if this improves things, if not there might some other cause.

Nick

P.s I remember you mentioned you have a Zoom mixer (sorry if I misread this), if so, and I'm only guessing here, it can be used as an audio interface. Again, I don't think this would help improve the performance of your computer, but I did read some time back that some Zoom mixers are 16 bit 44.1 Khz, if this is the case then adjust Pianoteq internal sample rate to 44.1 Khz and not 48.

Sorry going on a bit here, a few things to try though

Barbara,

What you say makes perfect sense you know. "Never mess with a working system" is absolutely true even for us techie types. :-)

Your goal is exactly ours as well, and while us techie types put in our few pennies worth of "expertise and experience", your very valuable topic is good for others in the future that suffer from similar issues. It's threads like this that become very valuable for this just as is for those that discuss (yikes!) taking the keyboards apart to replace switches and squishy domes.

So, don't feel you lost anything here and your topic has helped me as well and gave me a solution for my laptop with thanks to MeDorian (Nick) who recommended the Zoom device. With that, should I consider that, I won't get the big inhale, gasp and pause as my laptop nearly faints, or with my desktop so I get something that doesn't sound like a kid's toy. All and all, that maybe the most versatile solution for me since the device works on both.

Congratulations Barbara.

You've returned after my lifetime! :-)

I started at 5, learned to read myself and started lessons at 7. I became a music major for about a year at 48 in 2009-2010 until I ran out of money and had to go back to work. All and all, I never stopped studying, but now due to a neuromuscular disorder I need to fight every day to keep up my piano skills because my left hand gets "stupid" sometimes and forgets how to do things, and sometimes goes off and does its own thing instead of following directions!

No matter what level you are at, sticking with it and putting in your best efforts pays off as you've found. There is something I need to say which I learned from my most recent teacher. Play for no more than an hour at a time, otherwise, you'll have diminishing returns in your efforts. If you want to play longer, take a break for a few minutes. It doesn't have to be anything special, maybe a step away from the piano, a snack or a look out the window. I'll sometimes lie down on the floor for a few minutes with my head on a pillow to stretch. Once I've relaxed, I'll get up and go at it again for a bit longer.

While never a history major, I've always enjoyed that subject and combine history with music which leads me down another path. I'll find references to a composer in a biography on someone else. I'll then check out IMSLP.org www.imslp.org for that person's music. This little path leads to his or her teachers, friends and acquaintances, and so on. It's quite addicting and the thing is in the process I find out why some of these composers are best left as footnotes in Grove's Dictionary of Music.

Anyway, I recommend joining Piano World. There's an adult beginner's forum there with some really great people. I know Frank personally and I'm a member there as well, although I haven't been there in a while.

Pianoteqenthusiast wrote:

BarbaraRB wrote:

Hello, All,

I mentioned this elsewhere in the Forum, but I just returned to the piano (six months ago) after *60* years away. So I've started from scratch, relearning everything from the keyboard to reading notation to all the technical skills.  It's coming back faster than I'd imagined, and I'm making progress, but I'm still a beginner (probably advanced beginner now).  I've been completely immersed in the piano, including in my dreams, but have been less focused in my practice than I might have been because I've been exploring so many different learning pathways, doing so much listening to music, and reading, and dreaming, etc.  It has been a pure joy, and my central focus now is to learn to play the piano well, and do justice to the music I have loved throughout my life.

One thing I've done has been to join a Facebook group called "Adult Piano Returners," led by Melanie Spanswick, a composer, teacher, and (former) concert pianist from England who has published more than 20 books of piano music for all levels, many of which are international best sellers.  The group went from zero to about 6,000 members in just a few months, with members from all over the world.  (Not all Returners, but many beginners and many concert pianists.)  I re-joined Facebook just for my piano groups.

I've been using Melanie's "Play It Again: Piano" and her new series "Women Composers," Book 1 in each series.  What I'm doing, and really enjoying, is matching Pianoteq instruments (especially from the free Historical Collections) with each piece - playing Handel with an instrument he might have used, Beethoven with one he admired and recommended, Pleyel and Erard with pieces from those periods, etc.  It is so thrilling to be able to do this.  When I am able to play something from "The Well-Tempered Clavier" I'll be able to use the "Well-Tempered" temperament/tuning through Pianoteq, and play the music exactly as Bach composed it.  Of course I can't play the way Bach did (yet) but that's another story.  I'm almost ready to record a Minuet by Elisabetta de Gambarini (1731 - 1765) on the Blanchet harpsichord (1733) on which her students might have learned to play the piece. Close enough in time that it could still have been in use!  Most of the music by women composers was written by women who were also teachers, and the pieces were written for their students.  This music has now been reclaimed from history and brought back to life, and so much of it is really wonderful.  It has been forgotten, often for centuries.  Hands across the ages.

As a former history teacher, being able to travel back through time like this has an added dimension for me and just thrills me to the core.  Plus, the sound of the historical instruments (like all the others) is just glorious.

Hello again BarbaraRB !

What I’m telling now is not about Technical question headphones, but after reading your story I could not help but tell mine.
Because, as you said in another thread (Help Needed By Newbie) we share many preferences. I started piano lessons 3 years as nine years old but stopped. Started again as a teenager, but my teacher said you will never be a player, you can not keep rhythm, tempo ……! Then playing was not nice anymore. But I got a job as teacher for children 7-12 and had to accompany the children's singing, simple pieces,  on the piano for many years. It went somehow…….
I even managed to play some hymns in church when the organist became ill.

When got retired I didn’t play much (been retired 15 years.) When I found Pianoteq 2013 then I became really interested again, here I got advice in the forum, a lot of help and learned to play with chords, no one had shown it. Now I play several hours every day, have learned myself and have developed into pianoteqenthusiast, organteqenthusiast and harpteqenthusiast. Thanks to great encouragement in the sub forum Recordings.

And when with children, because I didn’t play so well I began to tell about composers Bach Händel Mozart….and we listened to music and began making paintings when listening (so I had not to play so much 
And like you I became a kind of history teacher, being able to travel back through time reading and listening. And therefore I too, like you now like historiacal instruments, Harpsichord, Erard……

Thanks BarbaraRB for your story, it reminded me of mine.
I know that my uploaded music has given much  joy. I hope you too soon have the courage to also upload your music, to joy for all of us.

Have learned that ”What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead”.

Best wishes,

Stig

Pianoteqenthusiast, Organteqenthusiast, Harpteqenthusiast

Thank you for sharing your journey, Stig. You are an inspiration. I will look for the Recordings and will also post from time to time. Maybe if I "lower the bar," other beginners will feel safe sharing their renditions, not just the virtuosos! It's amazing that you have expanded to organ and harp as well as piano. Love your enthusiasm. I'm going to work on building up my practice stamina. In segments, because after a half hour it falls apart and doesn't accomplish anything. Diminishing returns. And my concentration has been affected by the terrible situation in Ukr. Really, there are no words. I never thought I would see anything like this in my lifetime. Music is an enormous solace.  I will listen to your recordings, Stig. Thank you for your friendship.