Topic: (7.4.2) high latency with felt at low velocities
Hi,
Just wondering if there’s any progress on a fix for the huge latency you get at the very lowest velocities when using the felt pedal? Just installed 7.4.2, and it’s still there.
- Ben Crosland
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- marcos daniel
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Re: (7.4.2) high latency with felt at low velocities
What is the exact problem?
I don't get any latency
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- Ben Crosland
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Re: (7.4.2) high latency with felt at low velocities
marcos daniel wrote:
What is the exact problem?
I don't get any latency
If you engage the felt pedal, notes with extremely low velocities play late.
- Chopin87
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Re: (7.4.2) high latency with felt at low velocities
Same version here but I don't have any additional latency when engaging the celeste or moderator pedal and I am on an old i5 with ASIO. It could be related to something else not the software per se.
"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time." (William Shakespeare)
- Philippe Guillaume
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Re: (7.4.2) high latency with felt at low velocities
Ben Crosland wrote:
Hi,
Just wondering if there’s any progress on a fix for the huge latency you get at the very lowest velocities when using the felt pedal? Just installed 7.4.2, and it’s still there.
Hi Ben. This is intentional: when the celeste pedal is engaged and when you play ppp, the hammer has to push the felt strip against the strings. As the felt strip consists of one single piece without cuts separating each note, it is relatively quite rigid and heavy and it takes a certain time for it to reach the strings when playing at very low velocities. In the most extreme case (velocity 0) it doesn't even reach the strings. At very low velocities (even at velocity 0), the first thing you hear, right from the beginning, before the felt hit the strings, is the small woosh produced by the damper leaving the strings. Note that above velocity 10 the delay is already significantly reduced, and becomes negligible above 20.
- Chopin87
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Re: (7.4.2) high latency with felt at low velocities
Philippe Guillaume wrote:
Ben Crosland wrote:Hi,
Just wondering if there’s any progress on a fix for the huge latency you get at the very lowest velocities when using the felt pedal? Just installed 7.4.2, and it’s still there.
Hi Ben. This is intentional: when the celeste pedal is engaged and when you play ppp, the hammer has to push the felt strip against the strings. As the felt strip consists of one single piece without cuts separating each note, it is relatively quite rigid and heavy and it takes a certain time for it to reach the strings when playing at very low velocities. In the most extreme case (velocity 0) it doesn't even reach the strings. At very low velocities (even at velocity 0), the first thing you hear, right from the beginning, before the felt hit the strings, is the small woosh produced by the damper leaving the strings. Note that above velocity 10 the delay is already significantly reduced, and becomes negligible above 20.
Doesn't that happen normally even on a piano when hitting very low velocities (Vel: 5-6 or similar)? The felt seem to increases for a few more ms.
"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time." (William Shakespeare)
- Philippe Guillaume
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Re: (7.4.2) high latency with felt at low velocities
Chopin87 wrote:
Philippe Guillaume wrote:Ben Crosland wrote:Hi,
Just wondering if there’s any progress on a fix for the huge latency you get at the very lowest velocities when using the felt pedal? Just installed 7.4.2, and it’s still there.
Hi Ben. This is intentional: when the celeste pedal is engaged and when you play ppp, the hammer has to push the felt strip against the strings. As the felt strip consists of one single piece without cuts separating each note, it is relatively quite rigid and heavy and it takes a certain time for it to reach the strings when playing at very low velocities. In the most extreme case (velocity 0) it doesn't even reach the strings. At very low velocities (even at velocity 0), the first thing you hear, right from the beginning, before the felt hit the strings, is the small woosh produced by the damper leaving the strings. Note that above velocity 10 the delay is already significantly reduced, and becomes negligible above 20.
Doesn't that happen normally even on a piano when hitting very low velocities (Vel: 5-6 or similar)? The felt seem to increases for a few more ms.
Yes, you are right, it happens also without celeste. And the increase due to the celeste felt can go up to a few more centiseconds.
- Chopin87
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Re: (7.4.2) high latency with felt at low velocities
Philippe Guillaume wrote:
Chopin87 wrote:Philippe Guillaume wrote:Hi Ben. This is intentional: when the celeste pedal is engaged and when you play ppp, the hammer has to push the felt strip against the strings. As the felt strip consists of one single piece without cuts separating each note, it is relatively quite rigid and heavy and it takes a certain time for it to reach the strings when playing at very low velocities. In the most extreme case (velocity 0) it doesn't even reach the strings. At very low velocities (even at velocity 0), the first thing you hear, right from the beginning, before the felt hit the strings, is the small woosh produced by the damper leaving the strings. Note that above velocity 10 the delay is already significantly reduced, and becomes negligible above 20.
Doesn't that happen normally even on a piano when hitting very low velocities (Vel: 5-6 or similar)? The felt seem to increases for a few more ms.
Yes, you are right, it happens also without celeste. And the increase due to the celeste felt can go up to a few more centiseconds.
Shouldn't the Mozart rail or some soft pedal in certain upright which works in the same way (bringing the action closer to the keys) mitigate this behaviour?
"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time." (William Shakespeare)
- Philippe Guillaume
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Re: (7.4.2) high latency with felt at low velocities
Chopin87 wrote:
Philippe Guillaume wrote:Chopin87 wrote:Doesn't that happen normally even on a piano when hitting very low velocities (Vel: 5-6 or similar)? The felt seem to increases for a few more ms.
Yes, you are right, it happens also without celeste. And the increase due to the celeste felt can go up to a few more centiseconds.
Shouldn't the Mozart rail or some soft pedal in certain upright which works in the same way (bringing the action closer to the keys) mitigate this behaviour?
Yes, maybe a little bit...
- Ben Crosland
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Re: (7.4.2) high latency with felt at low velocities
Hi Philippe,
Thanks for the explanation. I have to say I really can't relate the way it feels compared to my felted upright, which has three separate felt strips, set close enough to the strings that by the time the hammers are going fast enough to make it through, any latency is negligible.
Anyway - I've done a quick track of some quantised crotchets playing the klopfgeist and PTQ supposedly in sync, from Vel=6 to =17 :
https://soundcloud.com/ben-crosland/pia...al_sharing
Is it really supposed to be this noticeable?
- Philippe Guillaume
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Re: (7.4.2) high latency with felt at low velocities
Ben Crosland wrote:
Is it really supposed to be this noticeable?
Well it depends on the velocity calibration... Personally I find it interesting to have this delay at extremely low velocities (below 10), but if desired this is something we can change.
- scherbakov.al
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Re: (7.4.2) high latency with felt at low velocities
Perhaps the latency at low speeds is unnecessary for owners of keyboards like the kawai novus nv10 or yamaha avantgrand nx1. Because this delay would be natural for such a mechanic. But for keyboards like vpc1 it is desirable to have it. Perhaps this parameter could be enabled or disabled by the user as needed?
- Philippe Guillaume
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Re: (7.4.2) high latency with felt at low velocities
We'll try to find a compromise in the next udate (expected soon).
- Philippe Guillaume
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