Topic by gm

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Topic: (Proposal for) a novel Valotti Young well temperament

I have found a new different solution to a Valotti Young like tuning.

The solution is in the same vain as Young, but follows a different path to resolve it
which results in the effect that some notes are tuned up that are tuned down in Young temperament.

A very brief very laymans description on the tuning and it's difference to Young can be found here.

https://pdfhost.io/v/4TeYdQXBL_aenor_scale_II.pdf

I kept any math out of the description and explained it in relation to to Equal Temperament.

Also a real world tuning routine for real pianos has not been developed yet
(but it's entirely possible and a future goal).

This was basically a math riddle for me and a way to better understand scales, Valotti and Young
but I consider using this in the future for all of my music.

If you are interested here is a basic scala .scl definition without any fine tuning try it out.

I am very curious about your impressions and thoughts on it, but mind that this has not
been fine tuned and is the pure mathematical solution so it might sound sterile or dissapointing to you.

Also, I am not a scales expert so I am very unsure hwo to classify and name this scale correctly.

so, any feedback or thoughts are very welcome.

Basic Scala definition:


! aenor_II_basic.scl
!
! These are the raw basic values of an Aenor Temperament II
!
! without any refined tuning
!
! The Aenor Temperament II is a possible variation, alternative solution or sibling to Youngs Temperament
!
!
! read the brief draft definition @  https://pdfhost.io/v/4TeYdQXBL_aenor_scale_II.pdf
!
! or visit https://aenortemperament.tumblr.com/  in the future for more information
!
! File created 2021-08-20
!
Aenor Temperament II
12
!
98.01020
196.16500
301.99000
392.32900
501.91800
596.02100
698.08200
800.00000
894.24700
1003.98000
1094.03000
1200.00000

Reply by Jake Johnson

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  • Jake Johnson
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Re: (Proposal for) a novel Valotti Young well temperament

Could you please post some recordings done in ET, in Young, and in the variant that you are proposing? Hearing the differences would be nice.

Reply by gm

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Re: (Proposal for) a novel Valotti Young well temperament

Here is a raw comparison of 5ths, 3rds and maj/min basic chords

https://soundcloud.com/aenor_temperamen...mperaments

I've decided to use a synthetic sawtooth synth sound, since piano tones are too complex and individual

The souncloud URL is now https://soundcloud.com/aenor_temperament

Reply by gm

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Re: (Proposal for) a novel Valotti Young well temperament

More on differences in this tumblr post
https://aenortemperament.tumblr.com/pos...ifferences

Reply by gm

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Re: (Proposal for) a novel Valotti Young well temperament

To get a better idea I recommend to first try it with the Tines Mark II "Spark" Preset,
and turn stretching off.

You'll probably notice that it is very neutral sounding.

A difference to flat Equal Temperament  is that the major third in C major has less beating and is more clear and several (6) fifths should have no beating, but these are not the same fifths as with Valotti.
C-G on the other hand does have slightly more beating than ET for instance.

All in all it might be a good starting point for a personalized tuning if you tweak it very slightly
but I have to say that this is a rabbit hole where you can spent a lot of time with.

Reply by gm

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Re: (Proposal for) a novel Valotti Young well temperament

Ok, I think this first attempt was naive in a way, it works but I do have to learn so much more

Today I tried a very different approach and found a scale I am quite pleased with

My attempt was to have just minor 3rds in some of my most used chords,  as I use minor scales mostly

And it turned I out I found a scale that has 7 just fifths and 5 just major thirds
at least that is what Pianoteq told me

I found Pianoteq a fanatstic tool together with Scala for this, it's such a great software

If you find the time to try and give feedback it would be appreciated very much:

________________________________________


EDIT: this attempt had several flaws, heres a new one




! attempt_III_f.scl
!
an attempt
12
!
16/15
9/8
6/5
161/128
131072/98415
600.0
3/2
8/5
32/19
16/9
32/17
2/1

Last edited by gm (24-08-2021 20:15)

Reply by Gilles

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  • Gilles
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Re: (Proposal for) a novel Valotti Young well temperament

I tried both your temperaments on the Ruckers (I'm no harpsichordist, though) and I find your first attempt much more interesting. It's sort of halfway between Valotti and Equal and sounds a bit like Equal, but with a different sweeter color, or Valotti but with less harshness.

It also emphasizes a bit the tendancy of the Ruckers to have the fundamental shift up a bit when a chord is held, something due to the spectrum evolution I guess.

The second attempt is much more unequal with for example a very just C major 4-note chord with a quite dissonant B major chord just below.

Great tool indeed! Good to see some nice use.

Last edited by Gilles (24-08-2021 19:39)

Reply by gm

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Re: (Proposal for) a novel Valotti Young well temperament

thanks very much for testing and the feedback

The second attempt had several flaws, so I edited the numbers above with a new try

I have to stress that I am very much a dilletant at this stage, learning while doing

Also if someone wants to tweak these attempts, feel free to upload your changes here


Also I found this one at the xenharmonic wiki today which works very well

https://en.xen.wiki/w/Johnson-temp

you have to edit out the blank lines to make it load