Topic by ulegasp

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  • ulegasp
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  • Registered: 31-05-2021
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Topic: sustain pedal

hi there

as unorthodox as it may seem
i'd like to be able to sustain notes on any independent keyboard

i know
tube organs don't have sustain pedal

but thats a shame, an historic limitation

some of us like to make infinite long drones of complex chords
while playing with the registers to modify the sounds

i am so fed up to have to place little pieces of cardboard in between keys just because of that stupid limitation

please MODARTT
don't fall into limiting the modern technology just with the excuse of historic realism

to please the orthodox, make it disabilitated by default
but allow us sacrilegous dronists to use the full extent of midi technology

thank you very much

Last edited by ulegasp (31-05-2021 19:53)

Reply by Blae

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  • Blae
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  • Registered: 06-06-2021
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Re: sustain pedal

ulegasp wrote:

hi there

as unorthodox as it may seem
i'd like to be able to sustain notes on any independent keyboard

i know
tube organs don't have sustain pedal

but thats a shame, an historic limitation

some of us like to make infinite long drones of complex chords
while playing with the registers to modify the sounds

i am so fed up to have to place little pieces of cardboard in between keys just because of that stupid limitation

please MODARTT
don't fall into limiting the modern technology just with the excuse of historic realism

to please the orthodox, make it disabilitated by default
but allow us sacrilegous dronists to use the full extent of midi technology

thank you very much

I'm not sure if there alread is a controller for sustaining notes hidden in Organteq somewhere, but for now a quick and better workaround than cardboard could be to load the Organteq plugin in a DAW, if you have access to one. There you'll usually have the option to send the sustain pedal as note on-off data instead of the actual midi control

Reply by ulegasp

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  • ulegasp
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Re: sustain pedal

Blae wrote:

hi there
I'm not sure if there alread is a controller for sustaining notes hidden in Organteq somewhere, but for now a quick and better workaround than cardboard could be to load the Organteq plugin in a DAW, if you have access to one. There you'll usually have the option to send the sustain pedal as note on-off data instead of the actual midi control


thankyou Blae

i had completelly forgot about midi notes off vs cc64 as sustain method...

and i see what you mean,
it would suffice to convert the cc64 to inhibit the NOTES OFF of that channel when its value (of cc64) is bigger than 0

while i was trying to do that on Cubase by inserting a TRANSFORMER midi plugin,
i discovered another Cubase midi plugin which i never used and that is even much better than that, or at least very interesting to make drones:

the CONTEXT GATE midi plugin allows to keep chords playing for a while without even have to use a pedal,
it retrigers to another chord if the defined minimum polyphony is played again on the keyboard and it has a time parameter that goes from less than a second to many minutes.

i guess what this insertable midi plugin does is preciselly delay the NOTES OFF on that channel

excelent for what i need !

thankyou for your suggestion, it made me discover a great new expressive tool !

also this solves another thing i wanted to do with PIANOTEQ:
to "sustain" the bouncing notes on the MALLET BOUNCE effect

i use this MALLET BOUNCE as a sort of "arpegiator/delay"

the sustain pedal does act to the played notes bat doesnt "retain" the notes that are bouncing

this CONTEX GATE trick works but not perfectly tough,
i would rather really like to be able to control the bouncing with a CC instead,
but it's bether than nothing

Last edited by ulegasp (21-06-2021 12:58)

Reply by rjsilva

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  • rjsilva
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  • Registered: 07-11-2017
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Re: sustain pedal

ulegasp wrote:

...i'd like to be able to sustain notes on any independent keyboard

i know
tube organs don't have sustain pedal

but thats a shame, an historic limitation

some of us like to make infinite long drones of complex chords
while playing with the registers to modify the sounds

...

please MODARTT
don't fall into limiting the modern technology just with the excuse of historic realism

I wouldn't want to interfere with your request to Modartt which you're free to make...

Though it's not accurate to suggest the lack of a sustain pedal on an organ is a 'historic limitation'. Compared to the mechanical complexity of a pipe organ, adding some kind of sustain pedal would have been relatively rudimentary even centuries ago. Further, the organ isn't an entirely static instrument—there have been substantial technical advancements and changes in organ design and production, and changes continue to be made. It's simply that the best instruments optimise their limitations to bring out the best of them and people who play them. The longer an instrument has been around the less likely it is to see changes. Not because of tradition but because many highly intelligent and experience musicians and builders have had a long time to reflect on its design and the past and current music written for it, and assess the value of those things, and make changes where valuable.

But if you want to use an organ's sound like a keyboard/synthesiser/etc., then connect the Organteq plugin to one as Blae suggested.

Last edited by rjsilva (23-06-2021 02:26)

Reply by samibe

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  • samibe
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Re: sustain pedal

How many notes do you need to hold down in 'complex chords'? Also, I think 'infinitely long drones' is the very definition of 'pedal points'. Being able to hand register an organ while playing complex chords or passages is a standard skill for organists. I regularly grab all the notes for both hands with one hand (and sometimes a foot) so that the other hand is free to change the registration or turn the page. It's even easier to free up a finger or toe to push a preset piston.

I used to want a sustain pedal on organs (as well as longer keyboards) when I was younger (before I started learning organ). My piano music just never sounded that great on the organ. Organ and synth music sounds great on the organ though.

The next question is implementation. Does the sustain only add notes (getting progressively more muddy due to the lack of decay)? Would the notes stop after a certain interval? What would you do about wrong notes? Would it be possible to remove notes by pressing the key a second time? Or would a sostenuto-type implementation be better?

One of the major skills in organ technique is 'voice independence' where any note in a held chord can move but all of the other notes must be held during the transition until it's their turn to move. It's tricky to learn but results in some stunning effects.

Last edited by samibe (23-06-2021 06:49)