Topic: Lacking "kick" in low end

I am relatively new to PianoTeq.  My main instrument I use for gigging is a Nord Piano 3.  There are some things I prefer about the pianoteq sound - the texture of chords and the complexity of some of the higher notes.  However, I'm finding it far behind the Nord and other pianos in terms of the kick that the bottom end has.  I play in a lot of rock groups and the feeling when I dig in the left hand is underwhelming.  It doesn't sound anything like if I slammed my hand down on the bottom half of a real piano.  Any tips on configuration to get this performing better?

Re: Lacking "kick" in low end

There is not "one" Pianoteq sound, but lot of them ! What instrument are you using ? I suppose you started with the Steinway but did you try the K2 or YC5 ?

Re: Lacking "kick" in low end

If you want options to adjust bass and tonal balance in Standard & Pro:
Note-per-note edit: volume, detune, attack envelope.
Microphone positioning.

Also now you can create your own hybrid pianos with morphing. Plenty of potential for thunderous bass if you so desire.

And all versions:
Model EQ, and the option to add multiple EQ curves in the FX section.

Re: Lacking "kick" in low end

The YC5 gives me a slightly fuzzy but more elegant bass, the Bluthner gives me a more powerful and thunderous bass (the soundboard on my CA98 often resonates the furniture, floors, doors and windows in my room under this instrument), and the new Petrof284 gives me my favorite broad, refined bass and resonance.
Of course, all this requires you to make fine tweak to many parts such as Mics, EQ, hammer noise and so on according to your own situation and preferences. Don't be afraid of possible workload and time consumption :-).
There are also new features such as Morphing. Cuz this is a model piano, you can feel free to greatly shape the sound you want, even if it may not be identical to the acoustic piano.

Re: Lacking "kick" in low end

Please record a short sound sample, MP3, to give a better idea of what you refer about.

petervkay wrote:

I am relatively new to PianoTeq.  My main instrument I use for gigging is a Nord Piano 3.  There are some things I prefer about the pianoteq sound - the texture of chords and the complexity of some of the higher notes.  However, I'm finding it far behind the Nord and other pianos in terms of the kick that the bottom end has.  I play in a lot of rock groups and the feeling when I dig in the left hand is underwhelming.  It doesn't sound anything like if I slammed my hand down on the bottom half of a real piano.  Any tips on configuration to get this performing better?

Re: Lacking "kick" in low end

petervkay wrote:

I am relatively new to PianoTeq.  My main instrument I use for gigging is a Nord Piano 3.  There are some things I prefer about the pianoteq sound - the texture of chords and the complexity of some of the higher notes.  However, I'm finding it far behind the Nord and other pianos in terms of the kick that the bottom end has.  I play in a lot of rock groups and the feeling when I dig in the left hand is underwhelming.  It doesn't sound anything like if I slammed my hand down on the bottom half of a real piano.  Any tips on configuration to get this performing better?

Maybe you could try morphing two pianos together. That way you could crank-up elements while preserving the original. The trick would be to balance it all out.

Re: Lacking "kick" in low end

Just to explain what other people here, including you, probably already know: Samples for stage pianos are often created with layers recorded from relatively hard strikes. This prevents noise floor problems--recording a softly played note can mean turning up the mic preamp, increasing the self-noise of the preamp and increasing the presence of ambient noise. The use of harder strikes also allows for fewer layers. If one started with  soft strikes, you would have to have several more layers to reach the medium strike level. Moreover, the use of harder strikes for soft sounds in some ways works. When played at a lower level, with a lower velocity, the note's upper partials are already faint, and only become prominent with high velocity strikes. That's why, only a few years ago, 3-layer pianos were considered state of the art in stage pianos.

In other words, if you have Pianoteq Pro, try creating a hybrid piano with a split somewhere in the lower tenor range, using the same preset for both sides of the split. In the piano to the left of the split, adjust the velocity envelope and perhaps hammer hardness to suit. You may want to alternate playing the Nord's note's and playing the Pianoteq notes as you edit. Save often, and remember that you may want to create several similar presets using different pianos.

Which I hope that you will share in the FXP Corner!

Last edited by Jake Johnson (16-05-2021 14:37)

Re: Lacking "kick" in low end

Try turning off the "proximity effect compensation" in your microphone settings.