Topic: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

I play a daily on Viscount Sonus 60. It is also an instrument with physical sound modeling, so perfect for comparison. I recently connected the Organteq to it. Here are my first impressions.
Advantages of Organteq: Cheap to buy, runs on three computer operating systems, the program file weighs little, does not require RAM, brilliant linguistic voices!

Disadvantages of Organteq: The program requires a strong processor (I bought two new computers and the Organteq on them doesn't work with many stops and in tutti; only the third new computer worked fine), no full names of voices on stop pins, the higher pitches play too softly in relation to the middle and left notes of the keyboard, some voices are repeated on all keyboards (no alternate voices). And finally ... TERRIBLE SOUNDS OF FLUTES! (without pomposity characteristic for flute, bez zróżnicowania dźwięku, bez symulacji traktury mechanicznej).

Overall, I am satisfied with the Organteq and do not regret my purchase. I will continue to test this program - this time on a good sound system in the church.
And waiting for updates and fixes.

Greetings from Poland

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

rumburak wrote:

some voices are repeated on all keyboards (no alternate voices).

In Pianoteq 1.6 there are 25 different ranks of pipe voices, any of which can be assigned to any of the 40 stops.

rumburak wrote:

And finally ... TERRIBLE SOUNDS OF FLUTES! (without pomposity characteristic for flute

That's probably a matter of opinion. The voices of Organteq 1 are inspired by those of the instruments produced by the organ builder Aristide Cavaillé-Coll (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristide_...C3%A9-Coll). I think that the current flute sounds of Organteq are lovely. It would be interesting if you would offer one or more MP3 files of recorded audio (from your Viscount Sonus 60, for example) of flute sounds that you prefer, for comparison.

I did find a YouTube video demonstration of some of the Viscount Sonus 60 voices--

https://youtu.be/-tvrot_8OHk

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Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (03-02-2021 14:07)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

Hi,
The above video shows the Sonus 60 - version for the US market. This instrument has a different order of voices and swapped keyboards;also added thumb buttons under each keyboard. Certainly the instrument has a different operating system installed, but the sounds must be the same as mine.
As I wrote earlier, I am happy with the Organteq program. I'm going to use both instruments at the same time. Both instruments are radically different - and that's what I mean.
I bought the Organteq 2 months ago, but I work a lot professionally (notorious lack of time) and only now started testing this instrument. I do this with headphones. I can only give my final assessment when I connect the Organteq to a good sound system in the church. This will happen in early May. I will also make a movie. Currently you can listen to Sonus 60 on my FB profile.
Unfortunately, like Bach and Schumann, I have no school. I am self-taught :-)
First movie: Only crumhorn and cornet (and foot pedal of course) and ... my burned hand :-)
https://www.facebook.com/piotrnowik/vid...3114347454
Low quality of registration because it was done over the smartphone.

Last edited by rumburak (04-02-2021 04:34)

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

Did you know you can run two or three programs Organteq at the same time?
And to play several Organteq at the same time (of course, it's all on one computer).
But does it make sense? :-)

Last edited by rumburak (04-02-2021 05:01)

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

rumburak wrote:

First movie: Only crumhorn and cornet (and foot pedal of course) and ... my burned hand :-)
https://www.facebook.com/piotrnowik/vid...3114347454

Wonderful performance. The video, while embedded at Facebook, appears to be a YouTube video; if you have a YouTube channel, would you post the link please, for those (like me) who are not registered with Facebook?

--
Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

rumburak wrote:

Did you know you can run two or three programs Organteq at the same time? And to play several Organteq at the same time (of course, it's all on one computer). But does it make sense? :-)

Well, perhaps not exactly what you asked, but when running Organteq as a VST plugin for a DAW host, lest the host can send multiple MIDI channels to a single plugin (which, for example, Reason, cannot), it may be necessary to, as a workaround, run one instance of the plugin per manual. It's not very CPU efficient, but if I want to integrate Organteq into my Reason rack (say, to apply Reason effects to the Organteq sound) that's what I have to do (if I "just" want to play Organteq from the Reason sequencer, sending MIDI out of Reason, via a virtual MIDI cable software, into Organteq, is a better solution).

.

Posted from my organ...

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

Bonjour, je possède un viscount duo, j'ai acheté organoteq, mais étant débutant dans les appareils électronique que faut il faire pour se connecter et faut il du matériel ?

Last edited by Michael CLEMENT (05-04-2021 12:31)

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

I promised to show you a few what my home Viscount Sonus 60 sounds like:

Juan Cabanilles: „Corrente italiana”, organ Viscount Sonus 60”

Girolamo Frescobaldi: „Recercar Con obligo di Cantare”

Last edited by rumburak (14-04-2021 19:24)

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

Michael CLEMENT wrote:

Bonjour, je possède un viscount duo, j'ai acheté organoteq, mais étant débutant dans les appareils électronique que faut il faire pour se connecter et faut il du matériel ?

Pour connecter l'instrument à un ordinateur, vous pouvez utiliser un simple convertisseur MIDI / USB, par exemple un Roland UM-ONE mk2 ou autre:
https://www.roland.com/pl/products/um-one_mk2/

Mais il est préférable d'utiliser une carte son externe, par ex.
Behringer UMC404HD
https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0BK1

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

My Videos with Organteq I'll show later.

Buxtehude BuxWV177

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

I have four Viscount instruments: Two Sonus 60 with a wooden keyboard, portable Cantorum Duo and the old Recitative Domus (see pictures with attached link), which I am currently renovating.
https://www.facebook.com/piotrnowik/pos...6570646767

Last edited by rumburak (15-04-2021 10:57)

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

OK, I come in here as an organist who's used viscount consoles (Regent 356) at a church I worked for and installed the consle, in fact recommended it based on owning a previous viscount prestige 3 manual years back.

Organteq is a unique piece of software and ideal to run on some older systems but more suited to systems like Intel NUC's or systems like that. Organteq itself  has a beautiful sound for the most part, although some voices do feel a bit awkward in a mixture. Trumpets don't have that grand feel and this is based on a professional audio interface and monitors / adam HS5 monitoring headphones as well a blind organist's ears.

I agree with the statement that organ stops are shared across the 3 manuals sounding the same, the issue here is that the software is as such a routable setup, It doesn't yet provide a full voicing toolbox like you'd find on the Viscount Regent, Envoy, etc series consoles, Now Viscount uses Physis technology which allows full physical / mathematical design of each stop, as such, elements such as chiff, overtone, overblowing, windchest behaviours, wind noise, etc, these are all part of the experience behind Physis. Maybe Organteq could look at some of the behaviours of Physis and expand upon this. If you go to the swell of say a regent 356 and set up a diapason mixture, do similar to the great, the voicing is completely different and should be with Organteq.

I will openly and willingly declare my love for this software and willingly persuade anyone to try and buy it. no question at all. I took this on out of initially, DESPERATION! being away from church for over a year as an organist really depresses me, I miss the consoles I work with more than you'd know, that tactile experience. So, when I started getting comfortable with Organteq, at first I couldn't get my head around certain things, but within a short time, and making Organteq work for some parts with VoiceOver with custom scripting (I advise not to do this), it works for me as best it can.

I have become addicted to tremulants. 4 trems on this system, NICE! the thought of adjustable depth and rate over MIDI CC and engaging them / disengaging on the fly, heaven. It's taken me a while to try and get as near an English spec organ together, although it's missing some crucial stops and certain stops don't sound right at all, that's from a blind organist's ears, Trumpets aren't the trumpets I work with, certain reeds differ heavily, but are usable all the same. But that said, I have a usable, warm sounding church organ with a nice long tail reverb.

word of warning, if recording with reverb, be advised, the reverb tail has a noticeable drop off and not a smooth clean end point, you can hear the stop point. example, 5 second reverb tail, will roll off, then you'll hear the stop, not a gentle end fade to silence.

That said, my answer to this issue is as follows:
Expand the ranks of Organteq to match that of a decent 80 stop 4 manual console, like a Viscount Regent 476, Rodgers Cathedral specification, Johannus Ecclesia D570 etc.

For me, I love this software and I have immense hopes for the evolution of the software, but here are some of the issues I face with the software...

1: lack of a set button, midi consoles have SET buttons to write a divisional or general piston by holding the set button down and then pressing a divisional or general piston..

2: Lack of divisional pistons per manual. It is all well and good having General pistons, but divisional pistons open up the scope of performance to church organists especially when performing, recording, rehearsing, etc. I come from an English Church Choral standard, as an organist and former choir director, so, for me, divisional pistons are a huge help in running through material.

3:The lack of a 4th "solo" manual. OK, 3 manuals is great, but what if you work with a 4 manual console or are working on material where there's a 4th division to the piece? Solo manuals really do offer some unique stops and character to an organ.

4: Lack of 32' stops and pipe ranks. Even a 32' resultant would be nice! The sound pallet of Organteq for the pedal division needs to be expanded upon.

5: A useful instrument would be appreciated as an optional. a Carillon either to the choir or solo manual if a solo manual were to be introduced.

6: Certain ranks are missing, such as Oboe, etc. As this is modelled on a French romantic spec, it is a consideration that a more international voicing series is offered, English specification, French, German, italian, etc, including symphonic, baroque, classical, etc specifications.

7: Expand the UI, maybe change the UI to a more European console spec. Give as an example, a console UI with say, 20 stops per manual with trems per manual, so the console UI would be 2 jambs with 2 sets of 20 stops per jamb for a 3 manual and 3 sets per jamb for a 4 manual (this includes couplers and trems.) Keep the keyboards visible, but include under each manual the piston rails for general and divisional pistons, as well as sequencer functions. designing the UI in such a way to be more like a larger cathedral organ spec, Like Liverpool Cathedral, salisbury Cathedral, York Minster, etc.

8: (for organists who have sight impairment or sight loss) The inclusion of screen reader support without custom end user programming, so that screen readers like JAWS for Windows or VoiceOver for the mac, can allow a user to navigate around the entire software. Also, for headless systems, the ability for the Speech UI of the given OS, to announce button pushes such as "16' principle Swell On", "General Piston 1", etc if you get where I'm coming from. this function can make a huge change to organists who like me are fully blind, where lit tab stops aren't a help, For me, a tactile console is that of motorised stops and a tactile, logical layout. so Organteq with this feature set, would provide a game changing experience for today's new organists. I go to different organs quite a bit and with that, some organs are new, I don't know the layouts, so sighted help is needed, well, until recently, the OrCam ReadSmart Text reader helps with that now and reads out stop names, displays, etc. but that is purely for tactile consoles  with draw stops. lit tab stops aren't detectable when all you see is black. so, Organteq as an engine could interact with a system speech engine, like the same concept used with Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol.

9: I would say that in order to enhance how organteq behaves, we do need better voicing tools, it's all well and good just volume and detune, but how can you design a custom rank? you can't. So, we need a voicing solution in organteq similar to Physis or better, we also need to work on how audio is routed as regards C / C# behaviour, so as an example, a console's pipe chambers / galleries could be spread between different sections of a cathedral as an example, or could be a church single location where the console is below the entire chamber and as to whether the pipes are apexed to centre or done as sloped inverse patterns,. Windchest modelling and blower behaviour / sound / blower characteristics to bellows and how ranks demand different levels of wind, etc. these make the experience of playing an organ as authentic as possible.

Blind Music Producer, Composer, pianist and Church Organist. Accessibility development specialist for MacOS. Developing a solution for blind organists to have an accessible digital organ solution.

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

My new recording on Viscount Sonus 60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2at5H2ArRlU

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

rumburak wrote:

My new recording on Viscount Sonus 60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2at5H2ArRlU


This is why I am a huge lover of physis as the voicing is so in-depth that you can achieve more clarity. This is where Organteq does need to solve it, there's no chiff detail to certain stops and to be honest, for what stops are available, we really need to expand uponit, making the swell and choir stops voiced differently and have different versions of diapasons and mixtures to give a more spread approach. at present, this just isn't viable with the current build of organteq. I miss my prestige 3 manual. every day I think of that console.

Blind Music Producer, Composer, pianist and Church Organist. Accessibility development specialist for MacOS. Developing a solution for blind organists to have an accessible digital organ solution.

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

My first Sweelinck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mX7WyCsnV0

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

Even though I had to look up the composer to see that he's of the last two centuries, I must say that this has a very Medieval feel, as if we're in an Abbey somewhere.  Nicely done.  Brings some cool dank castle air to a hot summer's day.

- David

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

dklein wrote:

Even though I had to look up the composer to see that he's of the last two centuries, I must say that this has a very Medieval feel, as if we're in an Abbey somewhere.  Nicely done.  Brings some cool dank castle air to a hot summer's day.

Dear Dave,

Please allow me to correct: Sweelinck died 400 years ago. He was a teacher of many organists and other musicians, and established by his practice the North-European organ tradition. It can be read in the english https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Pieterszoon_Sweelinck

Regards from The Netherlands
Alex

Analog Heyligers E1 organ, 13 stops, 2 manuals + pedal
December 2018 extension: third manual and midi
Software Organteq, GrandOrgue, Sweelinq

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

Oooops!  No wonder it sounded Medieval.  Now I can't remember who I had looked up.

;-)

- David

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

Sweelink isn't remotely "medieval". He lived at about the start of the Baroque.

Hildegard of Bingen, Walter van der Vogelveide and Guillaume de Machaut are "medieval."  There are as many centuries between the medieval period and Sweelink as between Sweelink and today.

(But hey, I guess it's hard to get a sense of history if you live in a country that has only existed for 250 years...)

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

...Most of my fellow citizens can't quote any history back past the 1970s (if that), and here they think that a 20-year old house is "old".  Heck, when I stayed in an 'old' hotel in Switzerland, it was built in the 1450s.

:-(

- David

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

My first ORGANTEQ recording, which I compare with Viscount Sonus 60

After this movie, someone will think that Organteq sounds better. True, but only in this configuration of voices. Overall, for me, Viscount is better and more functional.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRLcRfzoQPg

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

My second recording with ORGANTEQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrXC1PCEd-8

Last edited by rumburak (16-08-2021 10:20)

Re: Organteq 1.6 - first impressions and comparison with Viscount Sonus 60

My third recording with the Organteq program. Viscount Sonus 60 is used as the MIDI driver.
I like Organteq more and more. :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT_80B20WmM

Last edited by rumburak (16-08-2021 23:11)