i need to set the action so the key release samples are quiter after having played a soft note. this
seems to be a pretty big weakness currently, the lack of variation in the key release and hammer sounds.
i need to set the action so the key release samples are quiter after having played a soft note. this
seems to be a pretty big weakness currently, the lack of variation in the key release and hammer sounds.
Isn't that unnatural behaviour? Meaning you usually hear the noise because the note is softer, viceversa the note sound covers the release of the hammer. For now you can edit the noise of each key and set also a humanize feature which will trigger the noise in an interval you specify yourself.
i need to set the action so the key release samples are quiter after having played a soft note. this
seems to be a pretty big weakness currently, the lack of variation in the key release and hammer sounds.
What do you want to soften? The sound release of the note or the noise of the hammer when the key is released?
For the first, I suppose it is in the model itself.
For the second, you can change the Note off curve in the velocity area.
I find this to be a valid request. One may not have a note off velocity on their keyboard, so this could be a solution for some. My approach is that I simply switch it off completely, having the real note off noises from my keyboard pretty much audible. I agree that the note off behavior IS the weakest aspects of any virtual piano. While 'note on' is rather straight forward velocity value on both real and virtual, the 'note off' have a very complex behavior on a real ones, but very primitive on a virtuals, due to MIDI implementation on the controller side. I understand there is nothing realistically possible to do here until there is some new keyboard design with constant monitoring of a key position, like, say, optical or mechanical potentiometer used in joysticks.
It's an interesting topic.
Until now, I didn't worry that much with the note off.
On my keyboard, a Roland PHA-3 (model HP-507), the use of the calibration tool in Pianoteq lead me to use this kind of curve for the note off:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1abHlYH...sp=sharing
It works well for me, but I don't know if it is accurate or not
i agree it might be unnatural, but it's more about the musical enjoyment itself. i often find the instruments sound best for me in low dynamics, and i cant really find a good level of release noise. could you recommend a good midi keyboard for this, i.e something with note off velocity?
on the same theme, i'd prefer having also something resembling a lowpass filter on velocity as well. often real grand pianos tend to have almost a slightly "closed" when played pianissimo.
nilsemil@gmail.com wrote:i need to set the action so the key release samples are quiter after having played a soft note. this
seems to be a pretty big weakness currently, the lack of variation in the key release and hammer sounds.Isn't that unnatural behaviour? Meaning you usually hear the noise because the note is softer, viceversa the note sound covers the release of the hammer. For now you can edit the noise of each key and set also a humanize feature which will trigger the noise in an interval you specify yourself.
thank you, I appreciate this! for me it just comes down to pure musical enjoyment. i love all the natural noises around a piano, but the note off sounds are just too repetitive and un-musical. AND, releasing a piano key slower, actually makes slightly less noise than a fast release. so connecting note off noise to note on velocity would make a lot of sense. feel free to help (if you like to) filter this thought out into a proper suggestion to Modartt.
I find this to be a valid request. One may not have a note off velocity on their keyboard, so this could be a solution for some. My approach is that I simply switch it off completely, having the real note off noises from my keyboard pretty much audible. I agree that the note off behavior IS the weakest aspects of any virtual piano. While 'note on' is rather straight forward velocity value on both real and virtual, the 'note off' have a very complex behavior on a real ones, but very primitive on a virtuals, due to MIDI implementation on the controller side. I understand there is nothing realistically possible to do here until there is some new keyboard design with constant monitoring of a key position, like, say, optical or mechanical potentiometer used in joysticks.
when a note have gone quiet and the key is still pressed down, releasing it will make a thump, but it's too repetitive. making them all just quiter takes out a lot about what i like in the sound. i just want natural variation, and for me the note on velocity control would suit me best :- )
nilsemil@gmail.com wrote:i need to set the action so the key release samples are quiter after having played a soft note. this
seems to be a pretty big weakness currently, the lack of variation in the key release and hammer sounds.What do you want to soften? The sound release of the note or the noise of the hammer when the key is released?
For the first, I suppose it is in the model itself.
For the second, you can change the Note off curve in the velocity area.
Hi nilsemil@gmail.com, the note-off velocity is more about the release time than actual velocity. Try moving the note-off curve in Pianoteq to 40 (straight horizontal line as the default curve), this will lengthen the key release time. For staccato a high setting over 100 will shorten the release time.
The volume will be noticeably different with low note-off curve (30 for example) or higher curve setting (110 for example). In Pianoteq 'Action', key release noise, here one can lower the volume also.
A keyboard with note-off velocity though is the best way to have full control. Kawai VPC1 is one example of a keyboard that sends note-off values when playing, this though will still require a note-off velocity curve to be set in Pianoteq for it to have an effect, the default curve is a straight 100 (If I remember correctly).
Nick
To add to my above comment, the note-off is not easy to control, for example I would find it difficult to have a note return/note-off value of '50' (for example) multiple times, note-on however I can fairly easily match velocity on repeated notes (at least close to).
Note-off can be confusing at first, a loud note-on followed by a long/slow release (low value) note-off. This is something that requires practice to achieve the same result twice, or at least to be aware of this when playing, although this is the same on a 'real' piano.
As for keyboards with note-off function, I can only guess the technology is similar in other keyboards to the VPC1 (which I own). I would not buy a keyboard for note-off capability alone, but it is a feature I am used to and would not now want to be without.
One thing to try is to have several note-off curves, each for an approximate note-off, example, a low value curve of 45 for a slow or quiet piece you are working on, and then use a different curve for a fast piece. Not perfect but it will give you an idea how this note-off feature works if you decide you require a keyboard with this function.
Nick
Good ideas - and interesting topic nilsemil.
Here's a note-off curve I find works well for my keyboard (select the line of text below, copy and right-click paste into the note-off box - right arrow from 'velocity' to 'note off' - hope that makes sense) - instantly for me, it gives good realism (likely different for other keyboards - but maybe helps a little to see it).
Note-Off Velocity = [0, 1, 54, 92, 127; 0, 32, 96, 127, 127]If hearing 'key release noise' prominently, it can be turned down (in "Action" panel) - or still in action panel, right click "Key release noise" and select "Humanize". With that tool, you can alter the probability density of a given range of release noises occurring - give wider random chance to how this sounds - making it a little less self-similar. Maybe drag the middle top dot lower or higher, and the 2 lower dots wider