Topic by navindra

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Topic: Natural Reverb for Pianoteq vs Sampled Piano Recording

I want to record a piece played with a sampled piano and then switch midway to Pianoteq.

I want to reverb them equally in post using some other software.

For the sampled piano, I can choose "Natural" reverb and set it to the minimum and for Pianoteq, I can disable reverb entirely.

HOWEVER, based on Modartt's documentation, I do not believe this is equivalent since the sampled piano already has a certain amount of reverb inherent in the sample, but for Pianoteq I would be completely killing all the reverb.

So instead of disabling reverb entirely in Pianoteq, what's the best thing I can do to match the sampled piano's natural reverb? Clean studio?

Thanks!

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Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: Natural Reverb for Pianoteq vs Sampled Piano Recording

Interesting... But it's difficult to know how much reverb the sampled one have.

Some piano samplers are recorded in anechoic chambers, which provide a 99,99% free of reverbaration sound. Others are recorded in rooms with not perfect sound insulation, and some samplers are recorded with natural reverbs.

I presume the best you can do is to get a very good headphone and try to estimate how much residual reverb the sampled one feels. Get some strong long strikes in the bass, for example, and some strong strikes with staccato, and try the same for thew trebble. If you feel residual reverbs you can try to recreate it on pianoteq.

Last edited by Beto-Music (20-12-2020 22:24)

Reply by Melodialworks

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Re: Natural Reverb for Pianoteq vs Sampled Piano Recording

navindra wrote:

For the sampled piano, I can choose "Natural" reverb and set it to the minimum . . ."

What is "natural" reverb? I've never heard of that term.

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Reply by navindra

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Re: Natural Reverb for Pianoteq vs Sampled Piano Recording

Thanks for the suggestions.

Regarding what "natural" means that's an excellent question. This is what I have in the documentation:

Natural: Simulates the ambience of a natural environment.
Small Room: Simulates the ambience of a small room.
Medium Room: Simulates the ambience of a medium-sized room.
Large Room: Simulates the ambience of a large room.
Studio: Simulates the ambience of a recording studio.
Wood Studio: Simulates the ambience of a wooden recording studio.
Mellow Lounge: Simulates the soft ambience of a lounge.
Bright Lounge: Simulates the bright ambience of a lounge.
Live Stage: Simulates the ambience of a live stage.
Echo: Simulates the ambience of an echo chamber.

Perhaps I should pick one that I can best approximate in Pianoteq.

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Reply by Qexl

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Re: Natural Reverb for Pianoteq vs Sampled Piano Recording

I think definitely like Beto recommends, your ears will likely be the most valuable thing to trust in the process navindra.

Really comes down to like oil painting. Alter a little change, step back, regard it a minute.. alter again and so on.

navindra wrote:

Clean studio?

I love using "dry room" or "clean studio" for very short reverb like

0.30 duration
5 or 6 mix
10 room size
-1 tone
0.009 predelay
+8 tail/reflections

- even fractional variances around that give more a sense of 'cabinet' than 'room' on any piano.. which to me, makes player presets enjoyable rather than switching off reverb altogether.. but also might be a good start point for what you're attempting there.

Good luck with your recording navindra - hope that helps a little.

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Reply by navindra

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Re: Natural Reverb for Pianoteq vs Sampled Piano Recording

Qexl wrote:

I think definitely like Beto recommends, your ears will likely be the most valuable thing to trust in the process navindra.

Really comes down to like oil painting. Alter a little change, step back, regard it a minute.. alter again and so on.

navindra wrote:

Clean studio?

I love using "dry room" or "clean studio" for very short reverb like

0.30 duration
5 or 6 mix
10 room size
-1 tone
0.009 predelay
+8 tail/reflections

- even fractional variances around that give more a sense of 'cabinet' than 'room' on any piano.. which to me, makes player presets enjoyable rather than switching off reverb altogether.. but also might be a good start point for what you're attempting there.

Good luck with your recording navindra - hope that helps a little.

Thanks very much, Qexl! That helps a ton! I will experiment with these settings and see where that gets me.

Find me at the new piano forums @ PianoTell.com.

Bluebird by Alexis Ffrench on Pianoteq NY Steinway D.

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: Natural Reverb for Pianoteq vs Sampled Piano Recording

I advice to try to find the reverb effect/room more similar between pianoteq and the sampled piano, and try to adjust the intensity (and other settings if needed) to match both as closer as possible.

I suppose that if you are so concerned about match reverbs, between sampled and modelled pianos, you are also concerned about match how the pianos were recorded/displaced to microphnes. So I also suggest to try to adjust the mic position on pianoteq to get close t o the sampled piano you will use in this project. And this is something that would be better do do first, before try to match the reverbs.
Use the most neutral/absent reverb setting you can in the sampled piano, to judge the sound to try to match pianoteq's mic position resulting sound to the sampled piano sound.

Reply by navindra

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Re: Natural Reverb for Pianoteq vs Sampled Piano Recording

Beto-Music wrote:

I advice to try to find the reverb effect/room more similar between pianoteq and the sampled piano, and try to adjust the intensity (and other settings if needed) to match both as closer as possible.

I suppose that if you are so concerned about match reverbs, between sampled and modelled pianos, you are also concerned about match how the pianos were recorded/displaced to microphnes. So I also suggest to try to adjust the mic position on pianoteq to get close t o the sampled piano you will use in this project. And this is something that would be better do do first, before try to match the reverbs.
Use the most neutral/absent reverb setting you can in the sampled piano, to judge the sound to try to match pianoteq's mic position resulting sound to the sampled piano sound.

Yes, you are right. I haven't played much with mic settings but I ought to match them between the sampled piano and modeled piano if I'm going to do this correctly. I hadn't given serious thought to this, but I'll experiment and see where that leads!

Find me at the new piano forums @ PianoTell.com.

Bluebird by Alexis Ffrench on Pianoteq NY Steinway D.

Reply by Qexl

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Re: Natural Reverb for Pianoteq vs Sampled Piano Recording

Why not perhaps, use similar very-low reverb versions of each piano.. then in a DAW, send these 2 tracks to the same reverb FX loop?

That way, you get 2 dry-as-possible pianos running through exactly the same reverb

I'd be cautious with mics, only because defaults are quite stable.. and our mic changes can be excellent for our own music.. but, if trying to show "what Pianoteq" is like, against some "default" sampled piano.. it risks giving Pianoteq in your example, a "comparatively strange" sound (to some listeners).

Cheers!

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Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: Natural Reverb for Pianoteq vs Sampled Piano Recording

You are right. I forgot to tell about this. First a very low reverb match (as some samplers do not allow reduce all reverb), and then apply a same reverb filter for both, if a medium or strong reverb it's desired.


Qexl wrote:

Why not perhaps, use similar very-low reverb versions of each piano.. then in a DAW, send these 2 tracks to the same reverb FX loop?

That way, you get 2 dry-as-possible pianos running through exactly the same reverb

Reply by tmyoung

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Re: Natural Reverb for Pianoteq vs Sampled Piano Recording

+1 on the layer two reverbs idea.  Often you get more believable results if there's a primary reverb shared by both tracks and then a much more subtle reverb on each.  Since you're not swapping a lot, as long as you sell you the first transition, it should be believable.

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