Topic: overload problems - PT6

Hello all,


I have some issues with Pianoteq 6, basically saturation/cracks in the sound.

These are some info about my HW setup:
- recent laptop with i7-8565U and 16GB RAM
- audio interface: motu microbook 1

I suspected the issues were due to the old audiointerface, possibly some driver incompatibilities. However, I noticed that the problems reduced when I reduced the internal sample rate to 32000 Hz and the max poliphony to 24. Which indicates the problem might be the laptop, not the soundcard. But is it possible that a 1 year old i7 is is not up for the job?

What makes the assessment more difficult is that the problem is not always there. There are times that I can play PT perfectly for 30 minutes or so, and then the problems start. Times that I have issues from the me moment I open PT. Please note that I always try to keep the number of open applications to a minimum.

Many thanks for your help with this!

Kind regards,

Fed

Last edited by fedbcc (24-10-2020 23:24)

Re: overload problems - PT6

I have similar issues with similar hardware, but not as extreme as you're describing, when using Pianoteq as a plugin.
When using the standalone application the performance is much higher.
Also you can try to increase the buffer size, this will help to get over small performance spikes without cracks.

Re: overload problems - PT6

Reducing the number of microphones, reducing the number of channel outputs, using simpler reverb (algorithmic instead of impulse response), increasing latency, closing other applications, and raising the pedal more often are all tricks to get better live performance out of pianoteq.  You can also check under settings what your "Performance Index" is under the Perf tab in Settings.  We can usually give you more precise application settings with that number.

My slower system's Performance Index is 26, and so I usually use 2 microphones, 2 output channels, Quad impulse response files, 48kHz sampling, 256 polyphony, and 44ms latency and it only has cpu overages when I'm doing the most intense playback.  On my faster machine I think it's closer to 35 (I haven't checked lately), and I can decrease latency and increase the number of microphones and I've never had a cpu overage.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2xHiPcCsm29R12HX4eXd4J
Pianoteq Studio & Organteq
Casio GP300 & Custom organ console

Re: overload problems - PT6

My suspicions lie with the Motu (esp. if it's10yr old plus).

Could you try swapping out the Motu? (borrow or test from a friend or in a store)

I don't know if I'm right about this hunch.. but if it's an older one with no physical knobs (with CueMix software for volume control, and effects) looking at volume and other settings within that software might be my first thing to eliminate from the equation.

Thought of that because it maybe doesn't have simple metal pots to get dusty/rusty. But that's a physical possibility (an external unit I have, has knobs which have been the worst case of this in my lifetime - pots going south in month 1 is not my fav thing - BTW, that co states that users must be gentle with knobs or damage to pots can occurr.. riiiight guys.. more like 'our pots are known to make your audio jump from clean to scratchy - and we like to blame you, our simp customers who we just know are hammering our poor hard working knobs with an oversized truck spanner when we aren't looking").

That CueMix can instigate a series of internal Motu unit effects, within the DAC loop which was a nice feature.. but I'd also make sure to disable any of that, like a hard compression (which might be kicking in sending you into saturation and bleed seemingly randomly because of some threshold).

In general make sure no level or other FX are set too high (gain staging).

With lowered output from Pianoteq, and adjustment of any input and output volumes, you can alter the harshness/pureness ratio of your audio signal (to ear, and to record).

If the Motu runs native 44.1kHz and 48kHz sample rates, I'd really want to use those instead of 32kHz which is probably a quick and dirty DAC routine with a lossy and smoothed over nature (making sure from Pianoteq, the ASIO drivers, the DAW, the Motu software etc.. are all set the same rate).

Disable any internal OS or sound card audio drivers, making sure only to enable your external unit drivers (in OS audio panel).

That's a start as well as what others well mention above.. but lots of people here have given all sorts of advice about all kinds of possibilities in various systems, maybe worth searching the forum here to view some of those, if you're still really flummoxed and certain it's not something typical.


For way more about ordinary system fixes for poor audio performance, I really like this guide from Cantabile software..

Glitch Free - in-depth guide to tuning Windows for reliable real-time audio performance

(assuming Windows - just because this kind of thing seems more likely in a Win sys from my exp.)..

Hope some of that helps out.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: overload problems - PT6

Thanks everyone for helping with this!
I have checked some of the points you made, and here are some more details.

- With an internal sample rate of 48KHz (same as the soundcard's one), a buffer size of 192 samples, 48 poliphony, the performance index is 100-150. Is it good?
- It's the stage version, so I don't have control on the # of microphones. 
- It's indeed a windows computer

As I mentioned, the performance is unreliable. It can work well for 30min, then suddenly it gets unplayable. I will check the  Cantabile software's guide that Qexl suggested, it seems very interesting. But indeed the soundcard might be the problem.

Many thanks.

Kind regards,

Federico

Re: overload problems - PT6

I would get a MIDI file with a lot of intense/complex passages, and play it to test audio output options.  I get the best results with my soundcard's ASIO driver, but test the different output options and configurations.  If you're performance index is that high, it's almost certainly not the CPU and either a settings or soundcard issue.

If you use the ASIO driver, set Pianoteq to something like 2112 samples or more and if there's still an issue with live playback, that basically guarantees that it's not the computer/cpu but something else in the signal chain or configuration.

If you don't have an ASIO driver, you can fall back on using something like ASIO4All, but the native ASIO driver--even on older interfaces--will usually be the best option probably better.  My soundcard is old too, and it requires the drivers to be installed in a very complicated process because they stopped making drivers for either XP or Vista, and so to get it to work on Windows 7-10, I have to install a third party driver bundled with another software pack that doesn't work that's older than what the manufacturer has on their site, and then install the driver update from the manufacturer or it doesn't work.  So, you're absolutely right that old drivers can be quite temperamental.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2xHiPcCsm29R12HX4eXd4J
Pianoteq Studio & Organteq
Casio GP300 & Custom organ console

Re: overload problems - PT6

Problems on my end too...Windows 10, i7 processor, 32 gb ram, set to 16 bit sample rate. Spikes processor and goes out of tune/ flat when playing in standalone mode - worse as VST in Cantable. Lesser machines have been able to handle this. System went out of tune on a gig last weekend. I keep getting the same tech responses that I have followed. Nothing helps.  I wish someone had a definitive GO TO guide for configuring a PC for music production. I hope you find a solution to your problem.

Re: overload problems - PT6

Perhaps if either of you could post a video using a capture software like OBS, we might be able to give better advice both about the overload and tuning issues.

In the meantime, I'll look at what it would take to do a demo video showing a start-to-finish gig-friendly configuration, since my set-up is definitely not portable and wouldn't help at all on this.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2xHiPcCsm29R12HX4eXd4J
Pianoteq Studio & Organteq
Casio GP300 & Custom organ console