Topic: Performance on recent laptops.

I have had PTQ for quiet some time  now.
I haven't found it necessary to use latest, greatest, fastest processors, although my last 2 I7 machines have been good performers in general computing, e.g. large compiles, 3d modelling, etc.

THIS machine is an Alien M17, 12 thread I7, 2080 graphics proessor, 16 gig of memory, base clock 2.6 gig, overcloking to almost 4.5 Gig (throttled by temperature).

So, I am a little surprised that it stumbles when playing midi files that aren't very "dense", i.e. polyphony rarely goes above 50.

I got a sceen shot last night and that raises a few questions.
1) Pianoteq sees my clock at the base rate of 2.6 Gig while task manager clearly shows it to be much higher - why is this ?
2) Bahh, I can't figure out how to insert a snapshot into this message.
3) Task manager is showing a couple of hundred processes.
I assume many of these are for the benefit of Windows itself, but whenever I have looked at them none are taking a significant amount of processor time or memory.
Are there any compute intensive background processes that I should look for and kill?



I'll post again as soon as I can figure out how to post the screen snapshot, BTW it does show that I have multi core rendering checked.

Last edited by aandrmusic (27-08-2020 15:24)

Re: Performance on recent laptops.

Are you using ASIO drivers? (asio4all or a dedicated sound card)
Another good option is "Window Audio (Exclusive mode)".
With that processor even in power saving settins you should have no problems.
I run Pianoteq on a two laptos, one with i7 7700hq (this work well even in power saving mode), other with an i7 4710mq (normal mode, no max performance needed) and on a Odroid XU4q board (ARM) which has a tiny fraction of the power of your setup without any overload.

Edit: If you want to use GNU/Linux, choose an optimized distro like Ubuntu Studio.

Last edited by marcos daniel (01-09-2020 15:08)
Pianoteq Pro - Bechstein - Blüthner - Grotrian - K2 - Kremsegg 1 & 2 - Petrof - Steingraeber - Steinway B & D - YC5
Kawai CL35 & MP11

Re: Performance on recent laptops.

Yes, ASIO.

I am on a more "PORTABLE" laptop right now and don't remember the CPU number, other than that it is i7 with 12 threads, a base clock rate of 2.6 GHz and the standard overclock that typically hovers around 4GHz, 4.5 or so on some  programs.

So, it is no slouch. 
{Come to think of it - the CPU number starts with10
Alienware M17 R3 is the model, Dell is the manufacturer}

Anyway, in playing moderately dense midi files it goes into about a 2 second BUZZ once or twice per hour.

Off topic; if anyone has this model and has done a 16 to 32 Gig RAM upgrade please tell me how.
Removing the bottom panel seems to indicate that the RAM sockets are on the TOP of the motherboard, i.e. between the motherboard and the keyboard.

I am wondering if there is an easier way to access them than by taking the motherboard out and flipping it, e.g. can the keyboard be removed ?

Last edited by aandrmusic (05-09-2020 20:50)

Re: Performance on recent laptops.

Here is what pianoteq sees as my system;

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10750H CPU @ 2.6GHz, M5/S2/F6, x12

CPU Frequency 2592MHz

At the same time task manager says;

Base speed 2.59 MHz
Speed 4.15GHz

So. PTQ seems to read base speed not overclock speed.

Re: Performance on recent laptops.

Base speed should be more than enough. I would look elsewhere.
You might use this freeware to locate your issues
https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

Re: Performance on recent laptops.

I also have an Alienware laptop. It's the older ca. 2016 M15 R2 and it also exhibits similar poor performance. I checked around to see what could be causing the awful performance and found that it's most likely the extra overhead caused by some of the drivers and software as well as the built-in SoundBlaster chipset. It doesn't help either that that SoundBlaster drivers are flaky and I constantly have to reset settings for it if I use it for something else then go back to Pianoteq. Killing the Dell system support software and the Alienware-specific software such as the FusionFX helps, but it's not perfect.

Re: Performance on recent laptops.

aandrmusic wrote:

Here is what pianoteq sees as my system;

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10750H CPU @ 2.6GHz, M5/S2/F6, x12

CPU Frequency 2592MHz

At the same time task manager says;

Base speed 2.59 MHz
Speed 4.15GHz

So. PTQ seems to read base speed not overclock speed.

Same here in my laptop with the i7 7700hq, PT only sees up to 2801MHz, and Windows 3.6GHz.

Pianoteq Pro - Bechstein - Blüthner - Grotrian - K2 - Kremsegg 1 & 2 - Petrof - Steingraeber - Steinway B & D - YC5
Kawai CL35 & MP11

Re: Performance on recent laptops.

You might also look at the graphics setup. Such laptops are built for video speed, not for audio: a few years ago I had a Sony laptop that was "eating" all the RAM for the video, even while it had a dedicated video RAM. Just unusable for any DAW, and it still is.

Re: Performance on recent laptops.

Because this happens so infrequently, I wonder if this might not be related to a hardware issue. I don't think it is performance related. I would run extensive memory checks
first to see if you find any problems. Memory does fail and can cause weird problems when it happens.

Re: Performance on recent laptops.

In looking at windows processes ordered by CPU use I saw some odd Win32 background processes that seemed to be taking mpre time than I wanted.

Well, the midi juke box player that I was using (VanBascos Karaoke player) is a 32 bit program.
I have now gone to using ONLY the Pianoteq play list - and I await further failures - maybe that was it, maybe not.

Re: Performance on recent laptops.

aandrmusic wrote:

In looking at windows processes ordered by CPU use I saw some odd Win32 background processes that seemed to be taking mpre time than I wanted.

Well, the midi juke box player that I was using (VanBascos Karaoke player) is a 32 bit program.
I have now gone to using ONLY the Pianoteq play list - and I await further failures - maybe that was it, maybe not.

In the modern Windows operating system, 32-bit applications live side-by-side with 64-bit applications. The operating system allocates up to 4 GB maximum memory space for them as needed. Having one or two 32-bit applications shouldn't cause problems because the 64-bit operating system knows enough to allocate the most memory to the 64-bit applications. The problem, however, is having too many applications running, will eat up resources, and having a hog application eating up the resources is a bigger problem.

The thing to watch for is CPU hogging. The Dell support software and the Alienware stuff really pegs my CPU badly even without Pianoteq running. After I noticed the system freeze, I checked the running tasks using Task Manager (Press CTRL_SHIFT_ESC), and the Alienware apps were running full bore. When I killed the tasks, the system became responsive. Dell's Support software too does this as well, and when the similar thing happened again, I ended up ending that task and this made quite a difference in performance.

Another thing too, remember this is a laptop and not a desktop. Laptop processors are different than their cousins the desktop version, and laptop hardware is also subject to a lot of power management well beyond the desktop equivalent. The laptop will idle down and turn off subsystems when things are quiet. If Pianoteq runs a lot in memory and taps at the CPU when needed rather than busying the CPU all the time, then those parts could be slowing down.

I agree there's an outside chance that there is an actual hardware problem, but I doubt it. I've run diagnostics, both built-in and separate and found nothing wrong.

Re: Performance on recent laptops.

I am only too well aware of (lack of) backward compatability <grin>

Having used the Van Basco player for several years it was my "go to" midi player - and of course I was running loopbe to connect it to pianoteq.

Anyway, I am still having failures with VanBasco and LoopBe NOT running.

Yes, Alienware background processes pop out of the background from time to time and I suspect that the support assistant MIGHT be the guilty party here.
Since I am disconnected from the web MOST of the time I am going through anything that looks like a watchdog process.

I did a drivers update this morning, no failures so far but I won't believe it until I have a week or so without buzz.

BTW, performance index with   PTQ right now shows a spread of 128 to 155, while browsing the web.

Last edited by aandrmusic (09-09-2020 18:06)

Re: Performance on recent laptops.

The "support assistant" seems to take over at random times.
I find this particularly inexcusable on a laptop that is aimed primarily at the "Gaming" segment.
Sometimes the mouse becomes disabled for a second or so.

Not that I bought it for gaming, the graphics processor was attractive for my 3D modelling.

When I remember to suppress (KILL) the support assistant the problems seem to go away.
I just have to kill it after every re-boot if I want to run pianoteq.

Last edited by aandrmusic (26-09-2020 17:24)

Re: Performance on recent laptops.

You could maybe disable this process by looking in the "services" menu...

Re: Performance on recent laptops.

Power Management settings could be an issue...
By default ("Balanced" power plan) CPU rating is dynamically because of power saving.
But for using VSTs you want to have 100% CPU rating.

There should be a "High Performance" power plan, this should work best for VSTs.