Topic by aWc

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  • aWc
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  • From: Montréal, Québec
  • Registered: 05-09-2018
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Topic: Simulating graded hammer response

I have been wondering how do emulate a graded hammer response in PT Pro, for use with midi controllers lacking this feature (such as my Roland FP-80). For those not familiar with the concept, check out this video https://youtu.be/vWRnljZTi4U

Looking through all the available parameters in Note Edit (Pro version), it seems to me that the only one that could do this is the Dynamics parameter. I gave it a try by drawing a curve like in the picture below and it seems to work . For example, it makes it easier to play fast trills in the upper octaves while maintaining a darker mid and bass sound at medium velocities. Any thoughts?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cif6nmxd4ri6w...R.jpg?dl=0

EDIT: I fixed the file so you can view it without downloading it.

Last edited by aWc (22-05-2020 20:10)
PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

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Reply by sjgcit

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Re: Simulating graded hammer response

Can the Note Edit Dynamics setting be locked for all models (i.e. part of parameter freeze ?).  I currently "only" have Standard and dynamics is not part of what you can edit in Standard.  It might be another reason to move to Pro (or maybe I'm just looking for an excuse ).

Note on Standard there is a "dynamics" option on the parameter freeze list, but that refers to the general dynamics slider, not (I think) anything from Pro's extensive Note Edit settings.

And thanks for changing the file link to a standard JPEG.

StephenG

Reply by hanysz

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Re: Simulating graded hammer response

I think this is just Yamaha getting carried away with their marketing.  (The line "for playing more advanced music" makes me feel suspicious right away.)

On an acoustic piano, the heavier bass keys are a necessary evil, not a feature.  Imitating the same thing on a digital piano won't make you into a better pianist.  I mostly play acoustic pianos, and when I play on a digital keyboard, I'm not even conscious of the bass being lighter, it's the least of my worries.  In fact I'd be happier if they could make acoustic pianos with a more even weight across the keyboard.

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Reply by aWc

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Re: Simulating graded hammer response

Thanks for replying! Individual Note Dynamics is  only available on Pro. I have no regrets upgrading to Pro, it's awesome.
Judging from the underwhelming response, I guess not too many users have Pianoteq Pro and a controller with no Graded Hammer Response...
But I do love my FP-80 and have no intention of upgrading that.

sjgcit wrote:

Can the Note Edit Dynamics setting be locked for all models (i.e. part of parameter freeze ?).  I currently "only" have Standard and dynamics is not part of what you can edit in Standard.  It might be another reason to move to Pro (or maybe I'm just looking for an excuse ).

Note on Standard there is a "dynamics" option on the parameter freeze list, but that refers to the general dynamics slider, not (I think) anything from Pro's extensive Note Edit settings.

And thanks for changing the file link to a standard JPEG.

PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

aWc's Website

Reply by aWc

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Re: Simulating graded hammer response

Interesting point of view. Roland has moved to GHR with their newest action, such as in the FP-90. Honestly, I tried it and still preferred the previous "ivory touch" action of the FP-80 (without GHR). Do high-end Kawai digital pianos and controllers have it? It's not that I think I absolutely need it, but the Velocity curves I have made recently (kind of the "hard touch" variety, meaning high velocities needed for f and ff reproduction, seem to work well on my FP-80, except the top octaves that become harder to play. So I hypothesized that this could be improved with either real Graded Hammer Response on another controller or a Pianoteq simulation of it.

hanysz wrote:

I think this is just Yamaha getting carried away with their marketing.  (The line "for playing more advanced music" makes me feel suspicious right away.)

On an acoustic piano, the heavier bass keys are a necessary evil, not a feature.  Imitating the same thing on a digital piano won't make you into a better pianist.  I mostly play acoustic pianos, and when I play on a digital keyboard, I'm not even conscious of the bass being lighter, it's the least of my worries.  In fact I'd be happier if they could make acoustic pianos with a more even weight across the keyboard.

PT 7.3 with Steinway B and D, U4 upright, YC5, Bechstein DG, Steingraeber, Ant. Petrov, Kremsegg Collection #2, Electric Pianos and Hohner Collection. http://antoinewcaron.com

aWc's Website

Reply by sharpnine

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Re: Simulating graded hammer response

Coming late to this thread--thanks for this. I have PianoTeq pro and I knew it could do something like this (as you can control everything about each key). Your picture is very helpful. Are you using this setup regularly?
My previous digital keyboard (which I used for 20 years!) was a Roland RD-700 which has graded action, and I mostly play acoustic grand pianos. So I'm completely accustomed to playing the bass notes more firmly. I replaced the Roland with an Arturia Keylab 88 controller recently. I'd been only using my Roland as a controller, anyway, since the sounds were so out of date. I like everything about the Keylab so far, except I do notice that everything I record sounds a bit bass heavy. I just play those base keys more firmly.
I think your solution will be helpful--I'll make some presets using the graded action simulation settings. I'm definitely noticing how much the velocity curve affects the feel of the keyboard, even though physically it's still the same keyboard with the same stiffness. Already my Pianoteq sounds make the keyboard feel much better, since I set up a velocity curve tweaked as I like it, than it feels when I use Arturia's piano sounds.