Topic: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

Here are my current laptop's specs:

CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (1.1)
Number Of CPUs: 1
CPU Speed: 1.33 GHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB
Memory: 2 GB
Bus Speed: 167 MHz
Hard drive: 4200 RPM

I can barely run Pianoteq as a stand-alone with 32 notes of polyphony. Using it in Pro Tools is a non-starter. I'm basically looking at 2 laptops, the 13" and 15" Macbook Pros. (I'm not interested in desktops or PCs, so please don't bother. And don't ask why! )

The difference in price is roughly $2150 vs $3200 (with the same extras ). Given the following specs, is the more expensive one worth it? Think I'd be able to max out Pianoteq within Pro Tools without hiccups, stalls or crashes?

13" specs:

2.53GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
128GB solid-state drive
3MB shared L2 cache
1066MHz system bus

15" specs:

3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
128GB solid-state drive
6MB shared L2 cache
1066MHz system bus

Last edited by moshuajusic (30-07-2009 14:06)

Re: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

something worth noting with Pro Tools is that the Pianoteq RTAS version does not have multi-core rendering enabled, so a fast cpu is good to have when running pianoteq in pro tools.

Re: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

No wonder. So can you enable it? Is it a problem?

Re: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

It may be connected to ProTools or RTAS standard, rather than Pianoteq's programming, I think.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

Yes multicore rendering does not work at all inside pro tools, at best it creates crack and pops, and at worst the computer just locks, that's why it is disabled.

Re: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

Yet another reason why I dumped Pro Tools...  Get the freakin' 3.06 GHz, I _beg_ you, the speed will make a _big_ difference!!! 

I did comparisons and it actually performs _comparably_ to my iMac, and my iMac makes me _very_ happy (though it would be positively _stomped_ in a duel with a Mac Pro).

(Check out the following review at Bare Feats:  http://www.barefeats.com/mbpp15.html)

"Our developers, who art in Toulouse, hallowed be thy physical-models.
Thy version 4 come, thy new instruments be done, in the computer as it is in the wood!"

Re: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

Just to add 2 more things:

You'd benefit _greatly_ from using the new Logic Pro 9 or Ableton Live 8 (which I _love_) instead of Pro Tools.  I invested a _ton_ of money in RTAS plugins (thank goodness not TDM and the uber-ridiculous hardware!!!) on my old Power Mac G4 "Quicksilver," and I finally just grew sick and tired of Avid's continuous milking of their customers (with unsatisfactory system/hardware upgrades).  The only "professional" thing about their junk is that they are a "professional" pain in the rump who force you into a narrow corner. 

Fortunately, many of those plugins have, by _now_, been produced in AU or VST form (or I just used a wrapper for non AS/RTAS things anyway) -- I'm only missing a few Bomb Factory, McDSP, and Serato plugins with maybe a genuine _hint_ of regret.  (Especially the McDSP...)

Also, you'd benefit _greatly_ from multicore rendering.  Too bad they don't have a quad-core laptop yet...  (It would be quite the furnace, anyway, until -- hopefully -- Intel's next die-shrink.)

:-)

"Our developers, who art in Toulouse, hallowed be thy physical-models.
Thy version 4 come, thy new instruments be done, in the computer as it is in the wood!"

Re: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

I think the folks on Digidesign's forum would have a lot to say to that! LOL

I posted the question there, because it's just so hard for me to believe that they'd make software that's compatible with dual-core Intel Macs and half-ass it by not taking advantage of the dual cores. Let's see what they have to say...

Re: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

just to clarify: pro tools can take advantage of dual-core cpus and more (there is a switch for that in its preferences) : when you have many plugins it can spread the load on the many cores/cpu you have. So if you have two pianoteq instances, they will probably end up being run in parallel on two different cores. But when a single pianoteq instance has multi-core enabled they are basically fighting for the same resource, and pro tools does not like that.

Re: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

OK. So question: Does Pianoteq as a stand-alone or in Logic Express (for example) take advantage of dual cores?

Last edited by moshuajusic (30-07-2009 21:09)

Re: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

My answer:  abso-freakin'-lutely!!!

If I disable the multi-, then performance drops (er, activity climbs) considerably in either Logic, Live, Sibelius, or standalone, especially with super-duper-high polyphony.

And the folks on Digidesign's forum _would_ have a lot to say, I'm sure.  ;^)

From what Julien says, Pro Tools' use of multicores is about as efficient as that of the current version of Photoshop -- in other words, not very!  The number of cores should, ideally, be transparent to the software, and the host/system should do all the overhead, but such is largely not the case -- yet!

"Our developers, who art in Toulouse, hallowed be thy physical-models.
Thy version 4 come, thy new instruments be done, in the computer as it is in the wood!"

Re: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

Here's the OFFICIAL Digidesign response!

"I think you [meaning ME ] are missing something here - there is nothing fundamentally wrong with this. That feature [I think referring to multi-core mode] in PianoTeq is the same one in most other virtual instruments that have a stand-alone mode. The feature is for when you use it stand-alone and not as a plug-in, since the host app is what handles processor distribution, not the plug-in."

So kinda like dhalfen is saying, the host uses the dual core processing, not the plug-in per se. The processor distribution should be "transparent" to Pianoteq within PT. (BTW, this is all very poetic and metaphorical for a tech n00b like myself. LOL)

But dhalfen, so you're saying that within Logic you can enable Pianoteq's dual-core mode and see an IMPROVEMENT!?!?!? Julien, how do you suppose that works??? What's Logic's special sauce?

Last edited by moshuajusic (30-07-2009 23:24)

Re: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

Actually, I'm getting ahead of myself, because I'm referring to Logic 9 (Logic 8 isn't so smart -- in fact, it's quite stupid!) -- haven't tried it yet myself, but the buzz has been outstanding!  Maybe _I'm_ the one on "special sauce" for letting the cat out of the bag (before I knew it was a Snow Leopard ;^).

I primarily use Pianoteq in Live 8 for now, and when I enable multiprocessing _in_ Pianoteq:  yummy!  I see a significant improvement, especially as the polyphony increases and with multiple instances (I can use about 3-4 without reaching craptacular land, though the _total_ polyphony can't be too nuts.)

Sorry to drag this off-topic, but my _main_ answer still is:  get that _faster_ processor!  It's definitely worth the extra moolah, even if it still isn't going to give you performance like a quad (or octo) setup.  And, using, Pro Tools, you'll need the horsepower!

"Our developers, who art in Toulouse, hallowed be thy physical-models.
Thy version 4 come, thy new instruments be done, in the computer as it is in the wood!"

Re: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

^ You run 3-4 instances of Pianoteq!?!? You maniac! LOL

I just wanna know if the developers think the 2.53GHz option can handle one instance of Pianoteq in Pro Tools with max polyphony, some string resonance, and a little reverb. Or, what they think is the safest polyphony for that CPU.

Alternatively, can anyone currently max out one instance of Pianoteq without hiccups? If so, what's your computer's specs?

Thanks!

Re: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

I am running a dual core 2GHZ macbook pro with 2GB of RAM.  I cannot, I repeat, cannot max out the CPU's with Pianoteq.  I can mash all keys at once, punch myself in the face (I mean the keys), kick the side of the POS midi keyboard I have, slap my girlfriend and spill beer on my laptop and still not max it out .

Honestly though, I run Pianoteq in Logic studio 8, with the laptop mentioned above and it's just amazing.  Absolutely hands down worth the money.  It's the only piano sampler I  have ever owned that hasn't failed me once during a recording or playback session.  It's solid as a tank on a Macbook Pro with Logic 8.  (It's also perfect in Mainstage for live paying, I do that too).  Logic 9 will be just as good most likely.  But I can't vouch for that yet sorry.

If it were me.  I would go for the one with the faster processor if I could afford it.  Because, you need to compensate for 64-bit coming soon.  New OS coming soon, Updates for Logic coming soon.  Updates to Pianoteq and a pro version eventially.  Nice thing about Pianoteq is that it uses almost no memory at all.  But it makes up for it in CPU.  So by having your other samplers and logic using up the Memory, but less CPU, it leaves more CPU for Pianoteq.  The other samplers are more picky about hard drive read speeds and bottlenecks of that sort.  For Pianoteq, concern yourself with bus speed and CPU speed.  Also, once you record your parts, you can freeze them in Logic which will take your CPU usage down to about 2-4% per track.  (not down 2-4%, but all the way down to literally only using 2-4% of the CPU total).

If you can't afford the higher one right now, trust me that the lower one will do the trick because it's more specs then mine is.  So get the one you can afford.  They both will work.  The higher one will simply let you do more long before you hit the wall.  I went for the most expensive version 3-4 years ago.  Here I am still using it and no where close to needing to replace it yet.  It still does all my recordings and mixes perfectly.  I will run it until it dies.

Maestro2be

Last edited by maestro2be (03-08-2009 21:41)

Re: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

I just wanna know if the developers think the 2.53GHz option can handle one instance of Pianoteq in Pro Tools with max polyphony

Yes I do think so, although we do not have pro tools installed on a similar setup. If you can pick up the most powerful CPU you will be even more future-proof of course, but the most important difference between the two models is the screen size, not sure that pro tools on a 13" screen is very convenient

Re: Need advice on a new Pianoteq-friendly laptop!

julien wrote:

If you can pick up the most powerful CPU you will be even more future-proof of course, but the most important difference between the two models is the screen size, not sure that pro tools on a 13" screen is very convenient

Major points to Julien for both... er... points.  Being "future-proof," while ever-elusive, is _always_ a good goal, and the speed will _definitely_ help move you toward that.  I _cannot_ stress this enough.  And the smaller screen, though surprisingly "roomy" with its inherent resolution, is _not_ good enough to run _any_ of your typical DAWs without tripping all over yourself.  (Of course, I usually have a screen full of plug-ins all over the place.  Hopefully, you're not so nuts.  Speaking of nuts...)

joshuasethcomposer wrote:

^ You run 3-4 instances of Pianoteq!?!? You maniac!

Yeah, think Simeon Ten Holt meets Sorabji!!!  (If you don't know them, then please, look them up -- you'll appreciate the descriptions!  %^)

"Our developers, who art in Toulouse, hallowed be thy physical-models.
Thy version 4 come, thy new instruments be done, in the computer as it is in the wood!"