Topic: Bach and a pedal
Do you use sustain pedal (for avoiding dry sound) when playing Bach? Do your teachers in muscial schools/academies approve it?
- paulvanbladel
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Re: Bach and a pedal
Romariozen wrote:
Do you use sustain pedal (for avoiding dry sound) when playing Bach? Do your teachers in muscial schools/academies approve it?
1. as a rule of tumb, NO.
2. sometimes you have no other choice, e.g. in WTC (Das Wohltemperierte Klavier), especially the organ fugues, you have no other choice for keeping long notes.
3. sometimes it is desirable because it sounds better.
Remember, WTC book I and 2 were intended as pedagogical exercises, i prefer to always try first without pedal and study them without pedal.
When using Pianoteq, if the sound is too dry select a piano variation with more echo
- paulvanbladel
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Re: Bach and a pedal
Romariozen wrote:
Do you use sustain pedal (for avoiding dry sound) when playing Bach? Do your teachers in muscial schools/academies approve it?
Shameless plug https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=7434
--> No pedal but bechstein with echo.
- Romariozen
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Re: Bach and a pedal
paulvanbladel wrote:
Romariozen wrote:Do you use sustain pedal (for avoiding dry sound) when playing Bach? Do your teachers in muscial schools/academies approve it?
Shameless plug https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=7434
--> No pedal but bechstein with echo.
I wonder how Bach managed to compose WTC that suites piano so much with its dynamics and sustain for an instrument without dynamics and with quickly dying sound
- Luc Henrion
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Re: Bach and a pedal
He was also using a clavichord. No pedals but a LOT of expression possibilities, even "polyphonic aftertouch"... ;-)
But I doubt he could play the WTC on this type of instrument... (not enough notes for a start).
- Chopin87
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Re: Bach and a pedal
Romariozen wrote:
Do you use sustain pedal (for avoiding dry sound) when playing Bach? Do your teachers in muscial schools/academies approve it?
I would say it depends. As a general rule I avoid the pedal in fast tempos because it creates an unnecessary wash of notes which detracts the beauty of the harpsichord technique. Different story for more slower pieces where the pedal might bring out some beautiful resonances and chords modulation which may pass unnoticed. Point is, you have to read the score and understand where it is desirable and where should be avoided. Only the notes can tell you, the rest comes with experience and gusto. Same story for playing forte and piano a passage, or if it should be staccato or legato. Interpretation is up to you. Try listening to some famous pianist you will have a better idea first and then your own.
Last edited by Chopin87 (12-05-2020 23:09)
"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time." (William Shakespeare)
- hanysz
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Re: Bach and a pedal
Romariozen wrote:
Do you use sustain pedal (for avoiding dry sound) when playing Bach? Do your teachers in muscial schools/academies approve it?
1. Yes, I use it. 2. No, they didn't approve :-) It was surprising how people can be so open-minded with romantic repertoire, accepting different interpretations, then become dogmatic and rigid in their thinking when it comes to "early music". (Also, ornaments always starting from the top notes, no exceptions, no matter how much it hurts.) But I'm no longer playing for exams, so I can please myself now.
As soon as you go near a modern piano, you're already playing Bach on "the wrong instrument". Once you've taken that step, you may as well use it idiomatically (yet tastefully). With dynamics and all the pedals. And rubato too. (Actually, I think a certain amount of rubato is historically accurate. There's no way they would have played everything in strict time before the invention of the metronome.)
Luc Henrion wrote:
He was also using a clavichord. No pedals but a LOT of expression possibilities, even "polyphonic aftertouch"... ;-)
But I doubt he could play the WTC on this type of instrument... (not enough notes for a start).
I read somewhere (sorry, I don't have the reference to hand) that "Bach on the clavichord" was largely an urban myth, and has now been debunked. The German word Klavier was mistranslated as clavichord in an influential book some time ago, and it stuck. Yes, he would have used the clavichord from time to time, but probably played most of WTC on the harpsichord (although the endings of some fugues are very suggestive of an organ). Remember that a harpsichord played well has a lot of expressive possibilities too. For one thing, you can hear nuances of articulation much more clearly than you can on a modern piano.
Last edited by hanysz (18-07-2020 11:10)
- theinvisibleman
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Re: Bach and a pedal
in general try to avoid the pedal, there are places where it can make sense (even implied) to use the pedal.
- MeDorian
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Re: Bach and a pedal
To take Bach Invention No. 1 in C major as an example, the first note C (right hand) belongs to the tonic, but the following D note (relative strong beat), written on the quaver, is by my figuring based on the D minor chord. Bach wrote in semi quavers and often the change in harmony would be on quavers not beats.
Syncopation is often used in Bach, quaver followed by crotchet then by quaver, look at the vertical structure of the harmony even when semi quavers (16th) are written. And don't presume Bach changed chord on every beat.
Once you grasp this then pedaling will be easier to apply.
A fun pedal thing is to pedal off beat, every other quaver (8th note), similar to a drummer playing the bass drum off beat.
- Romariozen
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Re: Bach and a pedal
It becomes clear to me why WTC was intended as pedagogical book. We always want to press sustain where our fingers can't handle legato or have an even and steady volume between several notes