Topic: Interesting cabinet/case projects

With all of the talk on the forums about making our own piano cases, speaker cabinets, and soundboard transducers.  Some of these projects might spark ideas or be of interest:

The "Resonance Piano" https://www.resonancepiano.com/en/
It's two soundboards, a transducer system, and an amplifier in a piano case.  You provide the keyboard and sound input (I'd love to see a PTQ sample--the samples I've seen are mainly Roland keyboards with the Roland sound engine).
Example of a performance on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn5lYWM...=emb_title
You can hang it on a wall to make a giraffe-style of piano (giraffes were the first upright grands which were replaced by square pianos which were replaced by modern uprights):
https://www.technischesmuseum.at/object/giraffenfluegel
https://periodpiano.com/giraffe-piano-ca-1825/

The "Future Piano" https://www.futurepiano.co.uk/the-piano
https://www.gearnews.com/the-standing-g...g-upright/
It seems to be another giraffe take-of but with some interesting changes--including being very light like the original giraffes.  While the solution isn't digital, it'll be interesting to see if the idea catches on or not.

Piano "shells" https://nashvillepianorescue.com/piano-shells
While not a very new idea (I have a harmonium in another office/studio that was converted into a computer desk), it's still interesting to see what others have done.  Even if this site is rather over-prices in my opinion, considering the $250 as-is pianos I can buy at local rebuilding shops.

A cool-looking DIY Shell project on pianoworld: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads....ost2443113
http://forum.pianoworld.com/gallery/42/medium/5265.jpg

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2xHiPcCsm29R12HX4eXd4J
Pianoteq Studio & Organteq
Casio GP300 & Custom organ console

Re: Interesting cabinet/case projects

Is it not possible to remove the cast iron plate?  Also I think the speakers should just be mounted to the sound board.   Also the display could be built into the original face.  It seems the old piano has been converted into a shelf more than any thing else.   I would like to see the old acoustic piano converted into a digital piano.   I've been thinking about doing this with old grands.  You should be able to find these old instruments for free if you are willing to pay the moving costs.

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Interesting cabinet/case projects

Yes, you can remove the cast iron harp, but you will almost certainly destroy the soundboard in the process.  Since this person's diy project was to use the soundboard for a transducer, I would assume that's why they kept the harp (plus for looks too).

And I agree, there are many other ways of mounting the screen, including a VESA-style bracket directly onto an upright's music stand, but I found with my own customized upright--years ago--that if you're playing virtuostic repertory, you can run your hands into anything that extends the music stand too far out above the keys.  (And I can confirm that it hurts!)  I prefer that grands don't have anything above the key tops at all.

Also, while PTQ has this built-in (and is therefore good for the Resonance Piano which lacks strings), keeping the strings will allow sympathetic resonance, even if they're in poor condition or out-of-tune.  (The resonance won't be flawless in a poorly-maintained instrument, but it will still be there.)  Because of that, you're probably better off getting a poor condition parlor grand for $2-7K and retrofitting it with a transducer system, instead of getting the Resonance Piano for ~$16-18K.  Particularly as it's easy to remove an action from a grand entirely while keeping harp, strings, soundboard, and bridge untouched.  (Yes you can do the exact same thing with an upright, but it's trickier--especially on older uprights--and you don't get as much space savings for a digital to slide into place.)  So I'm not sold on the Resonance Piano itself--particularly as I don't see the point of the two soundboards, it's a good reminder that the Steingraeber/PTQ-style of transducer in a real piano can work extremely well at a somewhat affordable price-point particularly for diy.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2xHiPcCsm29R12HX4eXd4J
Pianoteq Studio & Organteq
Casio GP300 & Custom organ console

Re: Interesting cabinet/case projects

I was wondering, since there are so many sensitive parts, how can I ship one internationally safely? The think is that I've located a grand piano in Czechia, that I intend to buy and bring to one of these houses in Greece as soon as it's possible to do so, but ... should I "just" have it delivered as large sized freight, or would it be wiser to rent a truck and bring it all the way to Greece myself? I was thinking that the second option is safer, but it's much more expensive and demanding in terms of time and efforts.

Re: Interesting cabinet/case projects

Flanker27 wrote:

I was wondering, since there are so many sensitive parts, how can I ship one internationally safely? The think is that I've located a grand piano in Czechia, that I intend to buy and bring to one of these houses in Greece as soon as it's possible to do so, but ... should I "just" have it delivered as large sized freight, or would it be wiser to rent a truck and bring it all the way to Greece myself? I was thinking that the second option is safer, but it's much more expensive and demanding in terms of time and efforts.

It's hard to say with COVID what borders are and are not open and to what kind of traffic.  Shipping agents, shipping agencies, and freight companies will almost certainly continue services even through a pandemic, but ordering any service at the moment could encounter delays or service changes as international situations fluctuating constantly and sadly not for the better in many instances.  I don't know if eastern European borders would be open to someone renting their own truck or not.  (I'm having a hard enough time keeping up with daily travel changes/restrictions within the United States and I don't even travel!)  You'd definitely want to research your options and move quickly before situations change, because any delay could mean that it only ships--either by you renting a truck or by hiring a service--in the Autumn or early Winter.

Those question aside, the most important rule for shipping a piano is to have it crated properly for transport, handled properly, and installed/placed properly.  Moving my GP-300 by myself from the dealer to my upstairs home studio--only 40km--was a significant challenge at each step, and it's a small fraction of the weight and delicacy of any grand piano.  I would recommend looking for a Czech-area piano moving company that do international delivery and have a good reputation among your local piano dealers, as that would likely be your best bet for getting good service and a good rate for this particular move.

Also, it's extremely important to try a piano before you ship it and get to know it very well before having it moved by anybody, and to look at insurance or other protections that the move may involve.  Not knowing if this purchase is through a dealer or a private client, dealers will often have connections to good delivery/moving companies which is a good place to start since they will have worked regularly with any companies they partner with.

While pianos are very delicate, they're also quite sturdy (anything that heavy has to be!).  After any move, you should expect to have a good piano technician do quite a bit of work on an instrument--you'll likely need it anyway to adjust voicing on a new or used piano.  The conditions of a move and a new home (with new temperatures, humidity, sunlight, etc.) will alter tuning, voicing, regulation extensively.  While pianos are delicate, a lot of damage has to happen in shipping for a rebuild to be required, but even the most careful or professional move will result in the need for a technician to do quite a few hours of work (a lot more than just a regular tuning or even pitch raise).

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2xHiPcCsm29R12HX4eXd4J
Pianoteq Studio & Organteq
Casio GP300 & Custom organ console

Re: Interesting cabinet/case projects

Here is an out-of-box project design I did years ago that may be of interest to those who might want to immerse them selves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrHdsWX...e=youtu.be

Lanny

Last edited by LTECpiano (06-04-2020 12:11)

Re: Interesting cabinet/case projects

tmyoung wrote:

With all of the talk on the forums about making our own piano cases, speaker cabinets, and soundboard transducers.  Some of these projects might spark ideas or be of interest:

The "Resonance Piano" https://www.resonancepiano.com/en/
It's two soundboards, a transducer system, and an amplifier in a piano case.  You provide the keyboard and sound input (I'd love to see a PTQ sample--the samples I've seen are mainly Roland keyboards with the Roland sound engine).
Example of a performance on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn5lYWM...=emb_title
You can hang it on a wall to make a giraffe-style of piano (giraffes were the first upright grands which were replaced by square pianos which were replaced by modern uprights):
https://www.technischesmuseum.at/object/giraffenfluegel
https://periodpiano.com/giraffe-piano-ca-1825/

The "Future Piano" https://www.futurepiano.co.uk/the-piano
https://www.gearnews.com/the-standing-g...g-upright/
It seems to be another giraffe take-of but with some interesting changes--including being very light like the original giraffes.  While the solution isn't digital, it'll be interesting to see if the idea catches on or not.

Piano "shells" https://nashvillepianorescue.com/piano-shells
While not a very new idea (I have a harmonium in another office/studio that was converted into a computer desk), it's still interesting to see what others have done.  Even if this site is rather over-prices in my opinion, considering the $250 as-is pianos I can buy at local rebuilding shops.

A cool-looking DIY Shell project on pianoworld: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads....ost2443113
http://forum.pianoworld.com/gallery/42/medium/5265.jpg


With Pianoteq, what would be the appropriate microphone setting / positioning for this type of equipment?

Respeito, Esforço e Sabedoria

Re: Interesting cabinet/case projects

Professor Leandro Duarte wrote:

With Pianoteq, what would be the appropriate microphone setting / positioning for this type of equipment?

I'm not totally sure as I haven't done much work with transducer systems, but I suspect there are two possibilities: it either doesn't matter (which is what the Resonance piano claims in it's marketing literature) or you would want as close a mic position to the bridge as possible or match your mic positions and channels to your transducers and reduce soundboard impedance, q factor, etc. to almost 0.

I know the Steingraeber/PTQ project is extremely similar to some of these designs/ideas, but I don't know if the Steingreaber system uses specialized presets to get better results or if optimal results occur with any vanilla PTQ preset.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2xHiPcCsm29R12HX4eXd4J
Pianoteq Studio & Organteq
Casio GP300 & Custom organ console

Re: Interesting cabinet/case projects

tmyoung wrote:
Professor Leandro Duarte wrote:

With Pianoteq, what would be the appropriate microphone setting / positioning for this type of equipment?

I'm not totally sure as I haven't done much work with transducer systems, but I suspect there are two possibilities: it either doesn't matter (which is what the Resonance piano claims in it's marketing literature) or you would want as close a mic position to the bridge as possible or match your mic positions and channels to your transducers and reduce soundboard impedance, q factor, etc. to almost 0.

I know the Steingraeber/PTQ project is extremely similar to some of these designs/ideas, but I don't know if the Steingreaber system uses specialized presets to get better results or if optimal results occur with any vanilla PTQ preset.

I did not understand. In what sense do you say that "the Steingraeber / PTQ project is extremely similar to some of these designs / ideas"?

Last edited by Professor Leandro Duarte (11-04-2020 03:35)
Respeito, Esforço e Sabedoria

Re: Interesting cabinet/case projects

Professor Leandro Duarte wrote:

I did not understand. In what sense do you say that "the Steingraeber / PTQ project is extremely similar to some of these designs / ideas"?

This project:
https://www.steingraeber.de/en/innovationen/transducer/
https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=5798
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQuq3iet9zA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orc0Fyysf6Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCTDdr8W4xI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1anVuCvxRo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjuAipEzuWo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIkkQp7r6NU

The last link (Part 5) has a lot of the technical background, like which style of transducer they use, etc.

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2xHiPcCsm29R12HX4eXd4J
Pianoteq Studio & Organteq
Casio GP300 & Custom organ console