Topic by cmal

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Topic: Roland FP-90 Velocity Issues

I'm running into an issue with MIDI velocity that has me completely confused and I'm at a loss for what step to take next in troubleshooting.

The issue is this. Every MIDI controller I've used so far has output significantly lower MIDI velocities than I would expect, particularly at the high end.

These issues are apparent everywhere I've looked: in the values reported by MIDI Monitor for Mac, in Garage Band, Ableton Live Lite, Komplete Kontrol Software, and Main Stage. Both on my iMac and on another Mac laptop. I can also duplicate the issue on iOS using Garage Band and an app called MIDI Wrench. I experience them with multiple USB cables.

I experienced this first with a Yamaha P-115, which I still have. The Yamaha sends values that are consistent with the recommended values for other Yamaha keyboards recorded listed https://www.pianoteq.com/velocity_curves – with soft values starting around 15-20 and the very hardest keypresses (harder than I would ever naturally play) topping out at around 90-100.

I had similar issues with a Native Instruments A49 controller, which other people have reported online. I assumed I was suffering from the same issues and returned it.

Much more recently, I bought a Yamaha P-515, and was discouraged to discover that it had velocity issues that were almost the same as those I experienced on my P-115, and mirror closely the velocity curve suggested for the P-515 on https://www.pianoteq.com/velocity_curves. I returned the P-515 as well.

Finally, I hadn't read of any reported issues with the Roland FP-90, and had frequently seen it recommended specifically as a good MIDI controller many places online, including in these forums.

I received the FP-90 today and… it also sends low velocity values. Now I'm just confused. I haven't seen these issues reported for the FP-90 anywhere online, the recommended Pianoteq curves at the link above is almost a straight line, indicating that the FP-90 should send pretty accurate velocity by default, and I feel like I really have to hammer on mine to get anything to sound like it should.

Unlike the keyboards above, I actually like the playability of the Roland enough that I'd like to keep it, but I'm extremely frustrated that it isn't reporting close to accurate velocities by default, and more importantly I feel like there almost has to be something going on that I don't understand for this to be happening. I can get to an acceptable top-end velocity by significantly reducing the "Key Touch" setting on the Roland itself from the default of 50 down to around 15-20, but while this helps significantly in playing louder notes, it significantly reduces the subtlety in soft notes.

Has anybody experienced anything like this, particularly with the Roland FP-90? Any help is appreciated. I'm losing my mind here.

Reply by Amen Ptah Ra

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Re: Roland FP-90 Velocity Issues

I suggest first troubleshoot at your hardware level via the following:

Download MIDIPipe from its webpage (http://www.subtlesoft.square7.net/MidiPipe.html) after a nominal donation, or simply download it from this link MidPipe.zip.

  1. Once installed, from the MIDIPipe Tools column scroll to SMF Player, select it and drag it to the adjacent Pipes column.

  2. With the player highlighted inside the Pipes column, load a familiar piano standard MIDI file or one from e-Piano Junior Competion into the MIDIPipe SMF Player.

  3. Play and listen to the standard file.

  4. Load and play the same file in PIANOTEQ (with Global MIDI Mapping set to Minimalistic) to hear whether or not it sounds as expected.

  5. From the MIDIPipe Tools column select Midi Out and drag it also to the Pipes column  —but place it underneath the SMF Player.

  6. With Midi Out highlighted in the Pipes column, choose the FP-90 as your MIDI Output.

  7. From SMF Player highlighted in the Pipes column, now play the file on the FP-90 via the MIDIPipe SMF Player and again confirm whether or not it sounds as expected.

Conversely, you may want to load the file from your computer onto your keyboard and hear it played within your builtin keyboard player, or played from the player and over a USB connection made to PIANOTEQ.

To look at MIDI messages from your keyboard, a pipe having your keyboard selected as a MIDIPipe Midi In and the AList tool both moved to the Pipes column allows visual inspection of channel and system messages sent from the FP-90.

Incidentally, if you want increased subtlety in softer notes, the slider of your PIANOTEQ Dynamics parameter makes soft notes softer.

Last edited by Amen Ptah Ra (24-10-2019 11:50)
Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Reply by Amen Ptah Ra

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Re: Roland FP-90 Velocity Issues

While on my Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, I see Pianoteq displaying velocities (8 thru 125).  And, use the furnished Pianoteq velocity curves that have been supplied for the Yamaha P-85 an earlier model.  Supposedly they apply to the later model P-115 as well.

Of the three (3) curves available from the P-85, the middle one suits keyboard default settings.  Appropriately, the other two (2) apply to hard and soft internal keyboard settings.

Last edited by Amen Ptah Ra (24-10-2019 19:23)
Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Reply by cmal

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Re: Roland FP-90 Velocity Issues

Thanks Amen Ptah Ra,

I'll try the steps you suggested with MidiPipe. I could definitely set the curves for my Roland FP-90 manually in Pianoteq, but I also use the controller in several other pieces of software, and if I end up having to set custom curves in all of those (not even possible in GarageBand for iOS) then the keyboard just isn't worth keeping for me. Also seems like based on the experience of other FP-90 Pianoteq users that this shouldn't even be necessary to get a decent velocity range, which is what has me so confused.

For the P-115 I've always had custom velocity values set, I was just hoping this wouldn't be necessary with the FP-90.

Appreciate your help.

Reply by Amen Ptah Ra

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Re: Roland FP-90 Velocity Issues

If you should need velocity curves to fix your controller for other VSTs, VelPro is a velocity fixer for the USB MIDI keyboard controller.

You get it at https://springbeats.com/velpro/.

Really I’m glad; you appreciate the help. 

Although, I’ve been wondering, if the Roland FP-90 velocity options are fine for internal sounds.  You see also I’ve been considering the keyboard for myself.  Seemingly, it only lacks MIDI High Resolution Velocity Prefix control change number eighty-eight (88) capability.

Last edited by Amen Ptah Ra (24-10-2019 17:27)
Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Reply by cmal

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Re: Roland FP-90 Velocity Issues

Thanks! I'll take a look at VelPro.

Amen Ptah Ra wrote:

Although, I’ve been wondering, if the Roland FP-90 velocity options are fine for internal sounds.  Also I’ve been considering the keyboard for myself.

This opinion is only based a day of use, so take that into account… if you are used to the sound of VSTs like Pianoteq, don't buy the FP-90 for its internal sounds. It just doesn't sound like a real acoustic piano. I feel like it would get the job done if you needed to use the internal sounds for a performance or something, but I don't love the sound of it. I bought it to use primarily as a MIDI controller because of the feel of the keybed, which I really really like. I tried the Yamaha P-515 before this and the internal piano sound there is much better, but I just really did not love the feel of the keys.

Reply by Amen Ptah Ra

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Re: Roland FP-90 Velocity Issues

cmal wrote:

Thanks Amen Ptah Ra,

I'll try the steps you suggested with MidiPipe. I could definitely set the curves for my Roland FP-90 manually in Pianoteq, but I also use the controller in several other pieces of software, and if I end up having to set custom curves in all of those (not even possible in GarageBand for iOS) then the keyboard just isn't worth keeping for me. Also seems like based on the experience of other FP-90 Pianoteq users that this shouldn't even be necessary to get a decent velocity range, which is what has me so confused.

For the P-115 I've always had custom velocity values set, I was just hoping this wouldn't be necessary with the FP-90.

Appreciate your help.

You know if the keyboard truly just isn't worth keeping to you, Christmas is soon approaching!  My contact information is always available, whenever you need my physical shipping address.

Thank you.

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Reply by cmal

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Re: Roland FP-90 Velocity Issues

Hahah. I know I'm making it sound like I don't care at all for it. It really is a nice keyboard. The action of the keys alone probably makes it worth keeping. But if I change my mind I'll let you know!

Reply by Amen Ptah Ra

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Re: Roland FP-90 Velocity Issues

cmal wrote:

Thanks Amen Ptah Ra,

I'll try the steps you suggested with MidiPipe.

One important step I neglected.  It should follow step No. 1, if you want to hear a MIDI file played inside MIDIPipe.

You have to select DLS Synth from the Tools and drag it to the Pipes column.  It goes just underneath the SMF Player.

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.