Help tweaking sound

Hi Bobsax,

not sure of course exactly what you wish for from changes (I quite like your FXP so far).

I spent a lot of time editing your fine FXP - really enjoy where you're going with it. My editing took me off and away from dealing with mids into other things over time.. but maybe the best single thing to offer might be...

Try selecting, then copying and next, right-click pasting the following paragraph into the main "Equalizer". That EQ works wonders as PRE sculpting.. so it won't be as jump-cut as a POST EQ.. I think of it in a similar light to shaving the wood off the cabinet, the audio is processed across all keys, no bumps in strange places etc.. It's one similar to a lot of EQing I begin with - allows, to me anyway, an open sound allowing more dynamic headroom (see the dip in mids). Just raise and lower the dips and peaks, move all the dots around until things sound closer to your ideal.. (I like a small raise around 410Hz for the C. Bechstein DG and rolling off in the mid 500s before returning to flat around 600 - but we'll all want our own, as the example is pushed, maybe too brittle and needs tempering or some different numbers to get what you are wanting more exactly) at least that's the theory If you want to do further overall EQing inside Pianoteq, then using the EQU3 inside the "Effects" section (even 3 in a row), you can raise or lower small opposing bumps where you made some dips/peaks in the first main EQ.. gently does it.

Equalizer = [60, 108, 173, 231, 310, 410, 425, 520, 600, 650, 950, 1580, 3350, 7150, 9800, 16000; +2.1, +4.0, +2.1, +1.5, -0.5, +1.5, -1.0, -2.5, -2.0, 0, -1.0, -0.5, -0.6, -2.0, -0.5, 0]

and this.. (look at shapes, change dots around to where you hear more to your own liking):

Equalizer = [115, 245, 435, 485, 550, 590, 755, 1410, 3650, 5400, 6450, 8100, 16000; +3.0, +1.5, +0.6, -1.2, -2.5, -4.5, -1.2, +1.5, +1.2, +2.5, +1.2, +3.0, +1.5]

Loads of notes below on some of the things going on during my overall editing of your FXP towards the way I'd generally begin to edit, in case it's helpful to anyone thinking about digging in (unedited, so please forgive any repeats and some maybe not-quite relevant to OP's directive).

Many of the items listed below, don't mean "This is exactly the only/best way" etc.. but the combination of them and all our finer tweaks will add up to very different sounds with small adjustments in the directions mentioned, or the reverse of those instructions.. have fun and A/B test - I trust you will get there with time and efforts

...

BTW I see you take note of things like "turn down main volume on interface" - which shows me you understand things like "headroom" and dynamics - so hoping you may also note a similar 'arc' in the way I feel a thinner mid-range equates to a better 'recording' (mentioning something of that below), but also might not be best for a lot of consumer systems in producing a fat/thick 'real piano in the room' experience of the kind of loudness only attributed to large speakers and real piano cabs.

I usually want a fairly specific sound for any given session or piece, so I'm often loading a piano/preset default, tweaking something obvious, then returning one by one to each thing.. re-assessing, taking time. Otherwise, defaults are mostly optimal to record with and tweak most things later (in app, or in post prod.)

Quick thing to start - If by "organic" you mean something like "Swimming/breathing a little more", then since you have the condition slider at 0.22 you could right click the slider and change the random seed from 1234 to some other number and hit enter - that way, many different things are randomised slightly differently so you could instantly unlock something you like better (a more swimming overall sound? or a tighter low-mid? etc.) - worth a few random inputs first, if it's a generally unknown 'it factor' you're looking for. If it doesn't impact positively just re-input 1234 and move to other things..

About mics next: this array gives a good close proximity effect for playing - but in case a certain 'something' you're seeking could benefit here, maybe try sending the side mics further away, making re-balance of levels to give more space to the preset.. but, if you're liking the closeness of the sound (player type perspective), that's all up to us of course. Extra note, setting speakers a little further back for player perspective mode I have found can help you feel a more 'realistically distinctive' spaciousness regarding the overall sound (if you know what you're doing here, just mentioning it because I think it would help a lot of users who say "Why doesn't my 50 foot long piano preset sound enormous?" while listening on laptop tweeters - it helps having adequate speakers as far back from you as required so it sounds spatially like a large piano.. all spaces x equipment scenarios will be radically different - and for recording, it will be more on a case by case thing with production direction to consider).

If therefore wanting some more specific things to try, I've listed some changes to various things to dispaly some directions you could take depending on your needs. (I tend to 'push' settings too far so you can truly experience them, understand how they eventually become noticeably - give time to be sure of your tweaks - days maybe - I tend to like pushing settings and returning later to lower impacting numbers). As mentioned above, in recordings, even these overly characterful presets can be tamed in post production with reductive EQ or whatever other chains of tools. In fact, I and maybe a lot of others prefer a too treble heavy piano vs. a too bass loaded one to EQ. It's easier (after recording is done) to make something softer and blunt harsh sounds with simple EQ for example, than it is to like Photoshop, run creative filters to attempt to "create" clarity where there was less definition in the bass or crushing mids.. A bright piano recording can sound more realistic with deductive EQ, than a bassy muddy recording can be made better.

Without getting into note editor in Pro, you could make most changes mentioned here in Standard's interface iirc. I did lower a basic volume for the

Most alterations I've noted below are in the provided FXP.. which of course you might tweak back closer to your original FXP settings, just one-by-one check if any of these head into the direction you want - and temper them or go the other way too of course - making lots of small changes = usually more organic I feel. Note that, sometimes, certain near numbers can have different colluding or synergistic outcomes - so rather than simply say "I'll have to go much higher with this setting", first try right-clicking the slider or control and typing a few numbers (fractions sometimes help).. like if a setting at 2 seems not quite there, don't just jump to 5, but first try 2.03.. can sometimes save something getting too far pushed out of shape. Different pianos and presets may have all different internals, at least some numbers which may behave in markedly different ways - but even though the below numbers are fairly safe to try on any preset, you may find all in combination too strong, or not strong enough for your system. Just back them all down a bit to return closer to your ideal - then one by one push back up, repeat

List of changes you could experiment with imminently, which might put some shine on the mids and related areas:

a
Unison Width 0.94 (I like this for some C. Bechstein DG unison settings, going lower than 1 but do *try every range, too high/low, back it down/up, repeat).

b
Right click Unison Width slider, Unison Balance +0.60

c
IF not using something specific like "Well temperament", maybe octave Stretch to 1.03 or more (or try a little below 1?), like try what you think might be way too low or high to hear where things go, then back up/down, try any number you like with Harmonic Stretching and String Tension, but Full Rebuild can often be safest.

d
Direct Sound Duration 1.73 (personal taste for this piano which IMO gives a sense of a smaller piano - but whatever works for a piece is whatever works best)

e
Hammer Hardness, Piano 0.37, Mezzo 0.87, Forte 1.67 (those are just the defaults +7 - so drop down if needed, they might be too brittle for what you want - but given in example to show how it can markedly help give some dynamic range and clarity to mids without getting further into EQ yet)

f
Hammer Noise 0.96 (because you have two sice mics, it might make better overall snapshot of a real piano if hammers are not totally close mic only)

g
Impedance 0.99 (dropped minutely - but you might prefer this raised, esp. with the other tweaks - I often start by lowering a little, getting used to it, then raising it until I hear obv. too much, then back it down to a sweeter spot)

h
Cutoff 0.97

i
Q Factor 1.15

j
String Length 2.82

k
Sympathetic Resonance 0.93

l
Duplex Scale 0.76

m
Energy 0.01

n
Main vol -7

o
Main EQ button (select the below paragraph, copy/paste into the EQ interface)..

Equalizer = [60, 108, 173, 231, 310, 410, 425, 520, 600, 650, 950, 1580, 3350, 7150, 9800, 16000; +2.1, +4.0, +2.1, +1.5, -0.5, +1.5, -1.0, -2.5, -2.0, 0, -1.0, -0.5, -0.6, -2.0, -0.5, 0]

OR this for variance, listen to the differences, A/B and thicken or soften whatever frequencies you need..

Equalizer = [115, 245, 435, 485, 550, 590, 755, 1410, 3650, 5400, 6450, 8100, 16000; +3.0, +1.5, +0.6, -1.2, -2.5, -4.5, -1.2, +1.5, +1.2, +2.5, +1.2, +3.0, +1.5]

p
Switched Delay on (settings as-is but could be tweaked - I try both on/off - find it often better with it on but off works really well at times).

q
EQU3 (I took inspiration from frequency numbers and amount of roll-off from old published Teldec audio curves, some out of date.. push or pull these - they, and things like similar EQ points published by RIAA etc.. can be illuminating, as they may translate fairly well to a lot of consumer equipment - maybe not easy to find, and I failed to re-discover where I first found them myself, sorry, and also how far I've altered them from some original footprint - maybe just another slightly interesting but irrelevant tangent).

right-click the 3 dots one by one and enter these numbers..

left dot:
Freq 50
Gain +2.8
Q 0.60

Middle dot:
Freq 500 #######--NOTE <<-- Pretty big impact number, try 410 up to higher than 500
Gain +2.0
Q 0.60

Right dot:
Freq 3183
Gain +1
Q 0.60

r
Compressor
Mix 12 (or higher numbers if you like - 61 may make it sound more like a recording)
Ratio 1.5
Attack 10.0
Release 30.0
Threshold -15.00
Gain 3.00

s
Reverb just a Clean Studio internal preset with slight variance.. Noted your FXP contains reference to an external IR file - so I'm not sure what kind of reverb you're attempting on your end except "room" of sorts - so return your reverb to what you want - and hopefully you won't need to alter too many more things for it to fit.

t
Forget to put near top.. the Condition slider settings..
Wear and tear 0.33
Random Seed 6815
(change the seed# to anything you want as mentioned at top for some instant changes to lots of small internals, 'feel', you can look into Note Edit in Pro to see lots of those changes showing up in the interface.. re-paint or enter new changes of your own from there esp. if you see something specific you want to alter, like how much you want a certain range of notes to be dampened etc.)

Everyone will want their own idea of best, or better with tweaking anything - so always I think it's really a great idea to try manually setting the things listed above, rather than just loading my FXP.. it will give I'm sure some reason to explore these settings.. and probably good advice for anyone with Standard and Pro, don't just stop there with those settings - but get further under the hood by tweaking the Spectrum Profile (the whole 7 on front interface, or note per note in Pro.).

Lastly, besides Pianoteq settings, your sound system can always benefit from running things through a DAW with some tasteful plugins although more and more I find Pianoteq standalone utterly satisfying for a practice/writing session for many reasons.

[Edit - any to and - ARIA to RIAA, I think I muddled countries there]

Indeed, thanks a lot Qexl!

I'll be trying out all these parameters once I'm home, your help is invaluable compared to me just blindly messing with everything for hours on end

Qexl,
     
    did you put up an FXP for this?

wow Qexl!!
thank you super very much!!
would you please explain to me something about how FXP files work?

do you have to have the instrument that the FXP was made with?
(I do have Bechstein DG, just wondering how FXP's work.)

thank you very extra much for your excellent and very entertaining reply Qexl!!!
you are brilliant and very funny. 
I played the FXP you posted. absolutely love it!!

the PT Random button is fun too!!
thank you again,
Charlie

Qexl,
    you are very kind and funny.
thank you for bringing me happiness indeed.
I used your preset today while teaching a student.
the student is a homebound senior.
I volunteer teach to try to bring joy to these people's lives.
kind of makes me think of pay it forward.
or some kind of virtuous cycle involving trying
to help people and make the world a better place.
thank you again for your generosity.
I am posting a song I heard on the radio that I liked.
(apologies for the off topic-ness. I am doing this in hopes that it brings some joy to Qexl, for his generosity and kindness.)
the story behind this song is interesting. I knew nothing about it until I started googling and reading.
it is a Charlie Parker song. some people made a tribute album, and wrote lyrics to some of his songs, and recorded them.
I have not listened to anything else on the album yet. (nor the original Charlie Parker version.)
here's hoping you enjoy this.
thank you Qexl.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmC01LiXLsU