Topic by Rhodes54

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Topic: Half-pedaling?

Is there a guide somewhere to setting up half-pedaling and how Pianoteq responds to it. (e.g. Does CC#64 respond to full value or is it just on/off?  Do I need to reassign it? Is there something in Pianoteq settings that needs to be addressed?)

I have a Yamaha FC3A pedal and I can see through MIDI Monitor that it's sending 0-68.  I know this can be adjusted to 0-127 either through MainStage OR through the AudioFront Midi Expression software.  (All my pedals are connected through the MidiExpression Quattro, NOT the keyboard). 

What I'm trying to figure out is how do I know if half-pedaling is working?  It doesn't sound any different to the on/off sustain pedal I already have.

Also, the pedal (at least the one I have) doesn't send ANY midi for the first maybe 3/4" inch of pressing on it. Are there other continuous damper pedals that respond instantly?

Reply by EvilDragon

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Re: Half-pedaling?

There's sustain pedal curve in bottom left (right-click the curve area, you can pick between several different things to adjust curvature for).

Hard work and guts!

Reply by Rhodes54

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Re: Half-pedaling?

When I connected an expression pedal to Pianoteq and assigned it to #64, I can see in the pedal curve window (and HEAR) how half-pedaling works.  Very cool. But that's using an expression pedal with a long throw.   

When I connect the Yamaha FC3A, however, I can see that NOTHING happens (i.e. NO midi is transmitted)  for the first HALF of the physical throw and then it behaves as expected, but in a very narrow foot range.    This isn't something I could adjust with a curve since that first movement doesn't generate ANY midi. 

Does anyone have this pedal?  Is mine defective?

Reply by MeDorian

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Re: Half-pedaling?

Rhodes54 wrote:

When I connected an expression pedal to Pianoteq and assigned it to #64, I can see in the pedal curve window (and HEAR) how half-pedaling works.  Very cool. But that's using an expression pedal with a long throw.   

When I connect the Yamaha FC3A, however, I can see that NOTHING happens (i.e. NO midi is transmitted)  for the first HALF of the physical throw and then it behaves as expected, but in a very narrow foot range.    This isn't something I could adjust with a curve since that first movement doesn't generate ANY midi. 

Does anyone have this pedal?  Is mine defective?

In midi events do you see a value of 0 when pressing/releasing? If so then your pedal, providing it goes also to 127 and different numbers in between should be ok. Try also the Pianoteq keyboard calibration, you can skip the first note on velocity and just calibrate the sustain pedal. This calibration will find a middle point which might help. I use a Kawai F-30 and it does trigger almost from the first movement not half way, but try and see if the calibration works

Reply by Rhodes54

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Re: Half-pedaling?

MeDorian wrote:

In midi events do you see a value of 0 when pressing/releasing? If so then your pedal, providing it goes also to 127 and different numbers in between should be ok. Try also the Pianoteq keyboard calibration, you can skip the first note on velocity and just calibrate the sustain pedal. This calibration will find a middle point which might help. I use a Kawai F-30 and it does trigger almost from the first movement not half way, but try and see if the calibration works

Using the calibration was a good idea for setting a pedal response curve, but again, the first half of the pedal travel is wasted.  Even with the new response curve, it's really difficult to get into that subtle half-damper range.  I'll contact Yamaha and then look into that Kawai.

Reply by MeDorian

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Re: Half-pedaling?

Rhodes54 wrote:
MeDorian wrote:

In midi events do you see a value of 0 when pressing/releasing? If so then your pedal, providing it goes also to 127 and different numbers in between should be ok. Try also the Pianoteq keyboard calibration, you can skip the first note on velocity and just calibrate the sustain pedal. This calibration will find a middle point which might help. I use a Kawai F-30 and it does trigger almost from the first movement not half way, but try and see if the calibration works

Using the calibration was a good idea for setting a pedal response curve, but again, the first half of the pedal travel is wasted.  Even with the new response curve, it's really difficult to get into that subtle half-damper range.  I'll contact Yamaha and then look into that Kawai.

I thought it was maybe triggering from a value higher than 0, 64 would be a guess or even a number like 40, this would mean the pedal likely to be defective. In the Pianoteq display the right/sustain pedal would look slightly lower than the other pedals and would mean your pedal is already half pedalling when not been pressed. A value such as 40 might not even be noticed by the player, and could be overlooked for reverb. Not sure if values 0-127 that were active from only the half way position would be a good playing experience though? As for the Kawai F-30, its just a Fater pedal rebranded so I would look at these cheaper options should the Yamaha need replacing. Just recheck in midi avent to see if the pedal gives a 0 reading when not pressed, this would confirm things

Reply by Rhodes54

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Re: Half-pedaling?

Calibrate was a brilliant suggestion, so I got the idea to use the Calibrate feature in the AudioFront Midi Expression software.  Once I did THAT calibration, the pedal now has full range.  Weird, but it's working now.  Thanks for your help! 


MeDorian wrote:
Rhodes54 wrote:
MeDorian wrote:

In midi events do you see a value of 0 when pressing/releasing? If so then your pedal, providing it goes also to 127 and different numbers in between should be ok. Try also the Pianoteq keyboard calibration, you can skip the first note on velocity and just calibrate the sustain pedal. This calibration will find a middle point which might help. I use a Kawai F-30 and it does trigger almost from the first movement not half way, but try and see if the calibration works

Using the calibration was a good idea for setting a pedal response curve, but again, the first half of the pedal travel is wasted.  Even with the new response curve, it's really difficult to get into that subtle half-damper range.  I'll contact Yamaha and then look into that Kawai.

I thought it was maybe triggering from a value higher than 0, 64 would be a guess or even a number like 40, this would mean the pedal likely to be defective. In the Pianoteq display the right/sustain pedal would look slightly lower than the other pedals and would mean your pedal is already half pedalling when not been pressed. A value such as 40 might not even be noticed by the player, and could be overlooked for reverb. Not sure if values 0-127 that were active from only the half way position would be a good playing experience though? As for the Kawai F-30, its just a Fater pedal rebranded so I would look at these cheaper options should the Yamaha need replacing. Just recheck in midi avent to see if the pedal gives a 0 reading when not pressed, this would confirm things

Reply by MeDorian

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Re: Half-pedaling?

Rhodes54 wrote:

Calibrate was a brilliant suggestion, so I got the idea to use the Calibrate feature in the AudioFront Midi Expression software.  Once I did THAT calibration, the pedal now has full range.  Weird, but it's working now.  Thanks for your help! 


MeDorian wrote:
Rhodes54 wrote:

Using the calibration was a good idea for setting a pedal response curve, but again, the first half of the pedal travel is wasted.  Even with the new response curve, it's really difficult to get into that subtle half-damper range.  I'll contact Yamaha and then look into that Kawai.

I thought it was maybe triggering from a value higher than 0, 64 would be a guess or even a number like 40, this would mean the pedal likely to be defective. In the Pianoteq display the right/sustain pedal would look slightly lower than the other pedals and would mean your pedal is already half pedalling when not been pressed. A value such as 40 might not even be noticed by the player, and could be overlooked for reverb. Not sure if values 0-127 that were active from only the half way position would be a good playing experience though? As for the Kawai F-30, its just a Fater pedal rebranded so I would look at these cheaper options should the Yamaha need replacing. Just recheck in midi avent to see if the pedal gives a 0 reading when not pressed, this would confirm things

Good to hear that, great stuff!!