Topic: Regarding the sync rate of effects

I'm a beginner in music and i wondered what the letter behind the timings stand for and how syncing works.
E.g. 1/2d, 1/2, 1/2t or 4d, 4, 4t.

My problem:
When i set the metronome to 60bpm and the sync rate of the delay to "1", the signal echoes one time a beat. In this case a second.
When i set the rate to "1t" i can't hear any difference even with the metronome turned on. Same goes for any value greater than one (2,4,8,16).

I tried to google it but all i found was articles about midi clocks in general and how to sync hardware synths with DAWs.

Please enlighten me, tell me a term to google for or link a dummy guide.
Thanks a lot!

"Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes."

Re: Regarding the sync rate of effects

Hey Zaskar,

great question - the word "sync" is the clue.

[If I'm not mistaken] The metronome is not coupled per se to the delay - you can though, type in any numbers that mathematically or otherwise make sense for what bpm you choose, without sync selected.

Here's a quick rundown on things which hopefully reveal the sense of it when using sync with a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation).

When we mouse hover over the sync dot, the info box says

"Synchronize with your host tempo"

This is mostly used in a DAW. Let's say, you begin a new song/project in a DAW you like, in the DAW song/project settings, you select things like 60 beats per minute and 6/8 timing or 4/4 and whatever other preferences available that you want.

That's the data Pianoteq sync will sync up with - that way, in your DAW project, if you change from 60 bpm to 64 bpm or 256? (theoretically any other number), you do not then also need to manually change your numbers in Pianoteq, it will still "sync" to give "swing" etc which makes sense to the numbers you change in your DAW project.

(There will be mathematical theoreticals internally which really might not sound human in some cases where the higher the number the more 'impossible' it might be to sound human - some articulation might not be a bad thing depending on whatever numbers you experiment with - it gets pretty hard to feel some measure of convention in the swing over a certain bpm - but whatever works, works).

The letter "T" refers to "Triplet" timing convention - and you can use it for automatically giving your echo timings some "Swing" (most basically fitting 3 into the space of 2 - and as humans, we each bring our own 'feel' to this when playing - like swing within the swing, varying the placement of the notes to kind of accelerate the 3 notes, or stretch the drama etc.).

The "D" refers to "Duplet", or "Dotted" notes where a dot after a note adds 1/2 the note length onto it. (outside the Pianoteq tools and in wider music theory, every subsequent dot = half of that again.. so the scheme goes, half, quarter, eighth and so on - not sure how far down that rabbit hole is possible - but at some point, it's best to simplify the theoretical with more plain notation anyway - each DAW or midi tool will probably function within their own limits but give interesting results when given 'pointy-headed' data - what's humanly or technically possible is another story of course).


That's some of the "what" in a nutshell, here's a "how":

  1. In a DAW, you choose your project's beat/bar settings (like 6/8 or 4/4 at 60bpm).

  2. Load Pianoteq as a VST instrument on a track.

  3. Open Pianoteq's interface and select the effect button and choose "Sync" and the timing you want.

Then A/B test what the difference between the ones marked with and without the "T" and "D"


But, if you just want to use Pianoteq in standalone mode and choose an echo like one synced with "T" etc., I'd really recommend disabling the "sync" mode and just choosing (with or without maths) some different delay times, with slider, or right-click and type in numerically in the input box that pops up.

Some charts might be found online with keywords like "music beat timing sync chart".. some good ideas out there, as well as some music theory sites.

Using 60 bpm and with the metronome going, some interesting numbers to use for your delay, without sync, might be (try out increasing also "feedback" to something like 50 to hear subsequent echos and examine how they diminish in time):

666ms for a quarter note triplet.
333ms for an 8th note triplet.
166ms for 1/16th triplets.



LINKS of interest:


Here's a nice page about the Tuplet in Wikipedia.

Likewise, the Duple and Quadruple in Wikipedia.

Here's a concise online BPM tempo and delay to time and frequency calculator - good links from this page and the chart is clear and in view, rather than needing just user input.

But, there are others, an interactive online delay calculator by Nick Fever <--here.

I like this blog post with some rhythm-ready tips for a primer and links.

In your web searching, you'll find much more sticking to terms like: how to, tuplet, duplet, midi, beats, bars, charts, timing, music theory etc.

Just some added opinion for anyone reading who may be new to music and music theory, it's my view that everyone takes a path due to their own reasoning, experiences and expectations/goals and nothing may ultimately be correct per se, but music theory is undoubtedly valuable for any particular career, genre, collaborating etc. and it's one thing to grok theory and yet another thing to play musically, and with enough time and application most everyone can develop their own interpretive or non-interpretive nuances no matter the instrument or tech, genre - the human factor is you


Best of luck! Hope some of that helps you out.


[Edit - spelling rhytm to rhythm]

Last edited by Qexl (30-07-2019 07:37)
Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: Regarding the sync rate of effects

Thank you so much Qexl!

I've never expected anyone would put so much effort in an answer.

I forgot to mention that i conduct my musical investigations in standalone only.
When i click on that tiny sync LED within the effect panel the effect is indeed coupled to the built-in metronome whether it's on or not.

So when i set the metronome from 60bpm to 120bpm the delay resounds twice as fast. As expected.
It's also twice as fast when i leave it at 60bpm but set the rate to 1/2. As expected.

(I chose 60bpm for testing purposes since it's a tempo i can relate to.)

Things got puzzling when setting the rate to 2 had no effect whatsoever.
In my book doing so should cause the delay to sound every other beat, but it doesn't.
I moved on to 4, 8, 16, no difference.
Then i got crazy and tried triplets, nothing.
(Actually i suspected the letters stand for "dotted" and "triplet" but then had doubt because it didn't work as i expected and i'm not fluent in english musical terms and their abbreviations.)

In my confusion i tried Cubase as a host to sync to. Works fine in general, but still no audible difference.

I guess i'll have to go back to the drawing board and acquire some basic knowledge.

Your links help alot even if "tuplets" are over my head at this point. <I was: "Ha, tuplets, my gawd! I lived happily for 41 years without a single tuplet.">

I was sure one could somehow calculate the delay times but mathematically i'm one fry short of a Happy Meal.
Furthermore i was not aware calculating delay times is really a thing and there even are calculators and charts.

And finally, you're right, the A/B function is actually gold for trying things out.

Again, thanks alot for your effort, your links and your two cents about approaching music.


Zaskar

"Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes."