What pianos would you like Modartt to model? Yamaha, Fazioli, Mason & Hamlin, the Bösendorfer from the other thread?
(technical side note, if Modartt only models one Fazioli - shouldn’t it be called a Faziolo?)
I hope that we will eventually see some more studio-size instruments (of similar style to Steinway B). The concert grands are wonderful, of course, but sometimes it's nice to have something smaller. Also, there is a lot of ground that could be covered in the historical field: square pianos and vintage uprights, for example.
My favorite piano is Ravenscroft (which are made about 10 miles away from me)... but they have their own software version so that might be a tuff one to get...
(technical side note, if Modartt only models one Fazioli - shouldn’t it be called a Faziolo?)
So silly... but made me smile. So 2 pianos is piani?
I hope that we will eventually see some more studio-size instruments (of similar style to Steinway B). The concert grands are wonderful, of course, but sometimes it's nice to have something smaller. Also, there is a lot of ground that could be covered in the historical field: square pianos and vintage uprights, for example.
To me the K Piano is as good as the B, it is one of the nicest models of them all.
It's nice to have officially endorsed replicas of specific real world models of pianos but having a model that is simply designed to be an ideal version of what can be achieved from the engine (without the limitations of having to recreate the real world warts 'n' all) is great too.
The vintage Kremsegg collection has multiple piano models. It could be nice to get an idealized collection of completely imagined modern pianos in a single pack or two too.
A Essenfelder imperial grand
Essenfelder was the best piano manufacture on Brazil for grand pianos, but due economic crises and the death of the german founder, Floriano Helmuth Essenfelder,, it started to cut cost and quality dropped, and eventualy the company bankrupted and closed in 1997
.
Some workers joined after the factory closed and started build some piano themselves, but without the quality standart of the past. Today they created a music store and sells some pianos and digital pianos from China, using the label Essenfelder, and some old projects (plans/blueprints) of their piano models are as guide to the chinese manufacturer. But of course it's not the same thing. The good old days are gone.
But the grand pianos made in the glory times was excellent, many using europeean wood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7UGNicp40E
A fine modelled version would help to keep the cultural memory alive from the past golden days.
What pianos would you like Modartt to model? Yamaha, Fazioli, Mason & Hamlin, the Bösendorfer from the other thread?
(technical side note, if Modartt only models one Fazioli - shouldn’t it be called a Faziolo?)
I realized that in the near future modartt will emulate manufacturers only make acoustic pianos. Two big name with popular sound is Yamaha (Bosendoefer) and Kawai, they have digital pianos so I think it's hard to deal with them. If Modartt must be do it, maybe Yamehe CFX or Kowoi Ex will be the name? ))
To me the K Piano is as good as the B, it is one of the nicest models of them all.
I must admit that I haven't spent much time with the K since its revoicing, but it does seem to have some interesting potential.
My favorite piano is Ravenscroft (which are made about 10 miles away from me)... but they have their own software version so that might be a tuff one to get...
Similar to what they did with the Bechstein DG, model the sampled version.
But I’d prefer Modartt to model a Bösendorfer. Then again, they’d have to talk to Yamaha for it (and for that CFX) but I guess Yamaha are even less inclined to authorize competing developers.
Pianoteq already includes a wealth of great pianos, but perhaps a Fazioli, or an Estonia—
Rachmaninov, performed on an Estonia Concert Grand 274 cm.
—
I've made these "requests" several times before, though I have the impression that one is really just talking into the ether with these sort of wishlists... but honestly, do we really need more Steinway-type modern grands when there are so many invaluable gems missing from the current survey of historic instruments, especially since preserving these instruments and making them available to a broader public is part of Pianoteq's stated raison d'etre?? from the very first paragraph of Modartt's mission statement:
in any event, my probable Pianoteq pipe-dreams include:
1) c1780s Stein (see for instance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC_PQFzaCKI)
2) Beethoven's 1803 Erard (see "Beethoven's Erard piano: its influence on his compositions and on Viennese fortepiano building", Tilman Skowroneck, Early Music, Volume XXX, Issue 4, 1 November 2002, Pages 523–539, uploaded here ==> http://www86.zippyshare.com/v/kEqyS8pA/file.html ; see also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnL9PIMH1nk).
3) c1814 N. Streicher (see for instance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3oWwsrCjTg , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmwv8G1beJA , and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY_ZYTV7qC0)
4) Liszt's 1846 Boisselot (see Paul McNulty's masterful recreation: http://luxurypianos.eu/boisselot/ , and an all-too-brief excerpt of McNulty's wife playing the instrument: https://youtu.be/r-LqGfUkN_M?t=523)
there are many more that I can think of but, for whatever it's worth (all of 2 centimes), these would be at the top of my list...
edit: N.B the board seems to not like some of these youtube clips and is showing a "video not available" error message, but the links do in fact work...!
What about Stuart and Sons?
...
in any event, my probable Pianoteq pipe-dreams include:1) c1780s Stein (see for instance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC_PQFzaCKI)
2) Beethoven's 1803 Erard (see "Beethoven's Erard piano: its influence on his compositions and on Viennese fortepiano building", Tilman Skowroneck, Early Music, Volume XXX, Issue 4, 1 November 2002, Pages 523–539, uploaded here ==> http://www86.zippyshare.com/v/kEqyS8pA/file.html ; see also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnL9PIMH1nk).
3) c1814 N. Streicher (see for instance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3oWwsrCjTg , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmwv8G1beJA , and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY_ZYTV7qC0)
4) Liszt's 1846 Boisselot (see Paul McNulty's masterful recreation: http://luxurypianos.eu/boisselot/ , and an all-too-brief excerpt of McNulty's wife playing the instrument: https://youtu.be/r-LqGfUkN_M?t=523)
there are many more that I can think of but, for whatever it's worth (all of 2 centimes), these would be at the top of my list...
Indeed an impressing list. Myself, after deciding for the Bechstein and the Steingraeber yesterday, and loving all the Kremsegg instruments, am simply perfectly happy for quite some time to come. The K2 improved so much in Pianoteq6, the Steinway D is wonderful, as is the Bluethner - so many wonderful instruments we have, for all kinds of different moods.
My wish would be that someone would write a book or pdf about "how to use Pianoteq pro to model own dream models and change existing instruments in a useful way (= not destroying them, like I would without any instruction^^.)
It would be a wonderful addon to the existing variety of instruments which are, let us face it, more than 99,999% of all piano players of yore ever had the chance to play. (We are lucky). It would be a book about
a) how to use the various parameters we have at hand, = technical explanations with some references to "Steingraeber uses" "Bechstein uses to vary between...." etc.
b) a short history of the building and construction of various pianos, describing differences between the models, which techniques were invented and what for - including links to several books on the subject.
c) an in depth tutorial describing one or two instruments and what 1 2 3 4 5 etc parameter-changes can result in.
I think this would be lovely. Modartt could sell it as an extra pack with those 1-2 pianos built in the tutorial.
Back to the new Bechstein hoooray - but it is nice to read all your wishes.
I'd like to see a Yamaha C7, CFX, or a Ravenscroft - even if unauthorized.
Not a piano, but I'd like to see more clavichords, as the Neupert, while very promising, is a rather wooly instance, and there are some lovely sounding clavichords out there with quite different characters.
David Klavins Model 450i or 370, and Una Corda.
Not a piano, but I'd like to see more clavichords, as the Neupert, while very promising, is a rather wooly instance, and there are some lovely sounding clavichords out there with quite different characters.
+1+ !
My wish would be that someone would write a book or pdf about "how to use Pianoteq pro to model own dream models and change existing instruments in a useful way (= not destroying them, like I would without any instruction^^.)
It would be a wonderful addon to the existing variety of instruments which are, let us face it, more than 99,999% of all piano players of yore ever had the chance to play. (We are lucky).
actually, I think "pianists of yore" (certainly in the 18th and 19th centuries) had a far greater variety of instruments that they'd encounter than our present day state-of-affairs... I forget his exact words and can't seem to quickly dig-up the quote, but Anton Rubinstein lamented the sort of homogenization that was already taking hold by the end of the 19th century and the "tyranny" of the Steinway-type instrument... as well, my old mentor touches on all this here and here for instance.
but some such write-up as you suggest would indeed be a nice thing to have!
edit: found the Rubinstein reference I was thinking of via Christina Kobb's interview with Bilson:
In 1892 Anton Rubinstein was asked: ‘Don’t you think that our modern pianos are better for the music of the old masters?' Rubinstein retorted ‘Absolutely not! Every composer writes for the instrument of his time, and on our modern instruments much of this music sounds at a disadvantage’ [unvorteilhaft]. Arthur Rubinstein, 100 years later, could never have said that, because he would not have known all those earlier models. Franz Liszt endorsed sixty different kinds of pianos; Russian pianos, American pianos, German pianos, Hungarian pianos. Liszt would have been absolutely astonished at how much variety has shrunk in the last 140 years!
and I also rather like Bilson's earlier quip in the same interview:
Actually, I am convinced that most pianists don’t actually know what a piano is! As Goethe said: ‘A man who does not know foreign languages will be ignorant of his own’.
Really like all the pianos everyone's mentioning. I can't imagine being unhappy with any one of those.
If I would add to the exceptional list of historic instruments already suggested it might be this (although I'm not putting before those aforementioned):
It's a Portuguese Fortepiano by Antunes, Lisbon 1765. (pieces played by Edward Parmentier - an hour & 1/4 of really enjoyable recording actually have listened to this a lot).
Reasons I am partial to it (other than I think it complements existing era instruments in the library), include its almost modest sound which may at first hide some very desirable attributes - extreme bass to treble without harshness of harpsichord (a different type of metal attack which would have been one of its beguiling selling points in that era) nor too deep kind of wall of bass - there's a particularly pleasant acoustic quality, and also the hammer strike which might come over as more a 'pluck' in higher register - in the bass to mids you can almost feel the old strings flapping in the breeze (hint of 'bassoon' and separately, diapason maybe 392? not sure - but loose strings rather than extreme tensions in modern pianos is a welcome change to my ears, this one satisfies that in an instant - just makes me smile, would love to compose with it, I think it would be an inspiring muse).. more incl. the playability with rather nice extraneous noise. Anyway, to me, it's one I'd feel I could travel to visit.
In the video the Scarlatti Sonata in E really exemplifies the soul of this fortepiano, to me. On a lot of modern pianos, that piece might sound quite a bit more 'pressing', the repetitive lines with climbing, harping warnings with minor deviations etc.. but on this piano, it sounds, again to me, a richer experience and the lack of modern force and sheer tones is so welcome - it feels to me as though it has practically each/all of the elements I love most about era pianos - therefore I feel there's something pretty special about it. Would be interested if others who love era instruments would feel similarly.
Modern pianos are always going to be where the most modern musicians are attracted - any of the ones listed would be way more than OK +++ with me here.
I guess I am seeing as many calling out for a singular Fazioli - ooops sorry, my mistake, a Faziolo (hehe @Groove On and maybe the Bosendorfer in equal-ish volumes.
In the case if it came to either and a vote to decide, I'd probably prefer the Bosendorfer - only because, to me it might represent more challenge for the engine if only considering whole sound considerations (perhaps a little more separation in character across bass/mid/trebles - whereas Fazioli may have more of an persistent singular character across all frequencies). A little like the fortepiano above, I feel the Bosendorfer might end up with a very enchanting result - like 3 times harder to get right. I could be wrong but it's a hunch.
I love both - I love them all !
But, I'm sure I'd be more than happy with whatever comes next
@Klemperer, something I like about the idea of a guide. The manual however is certainly really up to the task of explaining features, if somewhat in isolation. If an enthusiastic user would do own research about pianos these things over time will become more apparent, but you're on to something - maybe some users might need more concrete "this leads to this" to follow along or just to get past the point of "probably not going to be good at this" blocking of creative thoughts. There may be down sides to publishing such info though (not to mention revealing maybe too much of inner workings of Pianoteq to competitors - rather than vague ideas, things like "this does this under the hood exactly" might be iffy) - because so much of altering Pianoteq is about self articulating explicitly subjective aural experiences - leading to such a wide range of results at any sitting (for example - one night of tweaking for hours might lead you to the best!! piano sound evaaaar!! and "why didn't I think of this before? OMGoodnesgraciousme, how sleek" but after a snooze you quickly awake and dash to the PC and get Pianoteq up and running again only to hear something back which sounds like it's feeding through a fog horn - you can follow an idea until it breaks your brain but in the time spent on it, without a break particularly, you can really be way off the mark - working on audio is weird like that. A guide certainly might help some enthusiast Pro tweakers but I wonder, once you are that determined to edit Pianoteq, you more or less end up working out for yourself all the features/controls by osmosis which to me, may be the best path for any 'true learning' as compared to idle internalisations attaching to existing ideas (how do I get so many words in the way of saying diff is practical vs. theoretical bah) - use it, break stuff, try again, start over and all that jazz
[edit to add]
Thanks _DJ_ (and you are welcome re the above fortepiano - it is a delight to me) for the PDF links - will consume these asap. Similarly, I often fear what MIDI standard has meant to music as it relates more philisophically I would say to humanity, polity etc, not just "I like or do not like this fad" or "So what I loved my genres growing up" but humans harmonically resonate to easy solutions - MIDI provides a ton of this opportunity for entropy (hesitate to suggest dumbing down - it's different - humans may choose dumb things to combine or work with, whereas prior generations had to be a certain level of creative with a limited number of options - how many ways can you play knuckles? Ah, it's not the game but the effect - it brings the kids together in fun - they're not playing a game, they're playing each other - deeper understanding of some kind of x factor missing in a lot of behaviour I see in kids 'these days' (says every generation) - but if kids are playing "poke the screen" they don't play together, at least in person, as much or with fun connected to the competition maybe - more 'narcisistic' desire to win entrenched etc. possibly trillions of genuine tangents) plus most notable re MIDI the 'perfect tick' and early MIDI era electronic instruments drummed home the requirement for that flavour of perfection esp. given that the sounds were not 'real' yet.. and yet strangely, this is not to say I don't like modern music of any stripe (love all music, and consider anyone's output as a genuine statement, a human touch as from a human voice) anyway all interesting to throw about in mind - and escape from at times with the lovely Pianoteq era instrument collection.
If I would add to the exceptional list of historic instruments already suggested it might be this (although I'm not putting before those aforementioned):
It's a Portuguese Fortepiano by Antunes, Lisbon 1765. (pieces played by Edward Parmentier - an hour & 1/4 of really enjoyable recording actually have listened to this a lot).
hey, that's a great recording and instrument—thanks for sharing that!
Out of curiosity, I'd like to see a Mason & Hamlin. On Pianoworld, Americans seem to love these pianos, but they're not common in the rest of the world. I've never come across one.
Because that's an American piano maker, of course it'd be loved in the US
Personally I don't think Pianoteq will be "complete" without a Bösendorfer Imperial 290, a Shigeru Kawai SK-EX, and perhaps a Fazioli too.
My wish would be that someone would write a book or pdf about "how to use Pianoteq pro to model own dream models and change existing instruments in a useful way (= not destroying them, like I would without any instruction^^.)
+1.
i agree a book would be great, but i guess i'm not holding my breath. that would be a lot of work for someone.
another possibility is a wiki. this might be something that could work. there is a lot of info spread out in the forum, and a wiki could be a place to bring it all together. with the effort distributed it might be more feasible. perhaps Modartt could host it alongside the forum?
Baldwins?
Baldwins?
Baldwins. Absolutely. Or at least one.
https://youtu.be/A0Wo5xE0U4c?t=110 <---- Click here and it jumps to the piano being played.
Fazioli F308
Ravenscroft 275
I doubt if this would be possible because they seem to be as thick as thieves with VI Labs.
I doubt if this would be possible because they seem to be as thick as thieves with VI Labs.
Indeed they be
Of course the Bosendorfer Imperial!!!!!!!
Of course the Bosendorfer Imperial!!!!!!!
For me too (Bösendorfer). However other models can be interesting too. I imagine how with Reaper and Pianoteq we could do something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OwQOb6bd1M
Per the above, please see my very first forum post, specifically the number eight (8) part of it: https://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopi...11#p947811.
Ravenscroft 275
I doubt if this would be possible because they seem to be as thick as thieves with VI Labs.
Whenever this piano comes up somewhere I feel somewhat "limited". I really don't understand what people hear from this piano to like it so much. To each his own, I guess.
psterrett wrote:Ravenscroft 275
I doubt if this would be possible because they seem to be as thick as thieves with VI Labs.
Whenever this piano comes up somewhere I feel somewhat "limited". I really don't understand what people hear from this piano to like it so much. To each his own, I guess.
Have you played either of the models they make?
A Bosendorfer. A meet with them, with a brief, not to leave the studio until you've nailed it.
Most other piano software's collection offers a Steinway, a Bosendorfer and a Yamaha. Some a Fazioli. It's the big four.
I would love to have a Baldwin 1.10 cm upright, they have such a special sound, or even a baldwin grand, similar to Ray Charles grands.
Fazioli would be a must have, as long as a Bosendorfer but I really don't know what Modartt can do with the copyrights of these instruments.
A Sigeru Kawai is a long wait here for pianoteq members, but I believe that Kawai won't give the licenses.
Also a Schimmel upright would be a great add-on.
For those who are curious to hear 2 of the pianos mentioned in this thread, check out Garrick Ohlsson's complete recordings of Chopin on Hyperion: https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.a...DS44351/66
Some pieces (Mazurkas, for example) were recorded on a Mason & Hamlin, others (Nocturnes, Preludes, Impromptus) on a Bosendorfer Imperial. The digital booklet with full details can be downloaded.
A Bosendorfer. A meet with them, with a brief, not to leave the studio until you've nailed it.
Most other piano software's collection offers a Steinway, a Bosendorfer and a Yamaha. Some a Fazioli. It's the big four.
Maybe the B290 will be the big launch model for version 7 in a few years time?
Yes, the me too selection of Pianos. We already have the Yamaha emulation in the YC5 - which can easily become a close YC7 with adjustment to the string length, and a CFX sized YC too of course - Maybe Moddart can update and expand that pack's presets to become a YC family?
Given how lovely the Bluethner Model One sounds it is a wonder that it isn't more common in sample libraries.
When reading all these good suggestions, I make my suggestions: Kawai or Fazioli. Befor Christmas I had a feeling that soon is something coming, and we got Bechstein. Now my feeling goes more to Fazioli. But, as always, I can wait and enjoy then, when something comes up. And, I’m sure our interest in new pianos help Modartt keep the enthusiasm.
Actually yes. I can imagine a Fazioli being next.
Whenever this piano comes up somewhere I feel somewhat "limited". I really don't understand what people hear from this piano to like it so much. To each his own, I guess.
To each their own indeed. I feel the same way when I hear people talking about Steinways (unless you're playing a particularly bombastic Beethoven piece) and, especially, Yamaha grand pianos.
A Bosendorfer. A meet with them, with a brief, not to leave the studio until you've nailed it.
Most other piano software's collection offers a Steinway, a Bosendorfer and a Yamaha. Some a Fazioli. It's the big four.
Yamaha just launched a smaller 185cm Bösendorfer grand at NAMM: https://www.boesendorfer.com/en/pianos/...iano-185VC
DonSmith wrote:A Bosendorfer. A meet with them, with a brief, not to leave the studio until you've nailed it.
Most other piano software's collection offers a Steinway, a Bosendorfer and a Yamaha. Some a Fazioli. It's the big four.
Yamaha just launched a smaller 185cm Bösendorfer grand at NAMM: https://www.boesendorfer.com/en/pianos/...iano-185VC
This isn't a new piano.
Have we really need a new model ? I think we need a better Pianoteq, now it's a very good virtual piano but it need also some improvements for more realism... and for again long time because Pianoteq is not a real piano.
Newer models have more realism.
It's true but it's always the Pianoteq sound.
Whatever that means.
Pianoteq will never be a "real" piano. How can it be, it's not made of wood. What is important is that it sounds like a good recorded piano. Which it already does.
Yes, Pianoteq is, after all, 'only' a simulator - but it is an excellent one, and it keeps getting better all the time. The fact that it has already attracted the approval of several prestigious piano makers has got to be a good thing.
When ever I want a “new” piano sound I just put on different headphones or move my speakers a little or use different speakers.
About Pianoteq realism
With the new pianos each update brings more realism.
A contributor on a Reaper forum wrote this about my first track made with the new Bechstein DG :
"Not my kind of Music, so I can't comment on this, but your recording to me sounds more "real" than the ones at the Pianoteq website. In fact the most realistic Pianoteq example I heard yet. "
With this Bechstein I bet I won't be the only one to get such comments.