Topic by cslevine

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Topic: How about YOU modelising a specific piano ?

i have one question.
Well since a long time, i tried to deal myself xith harmonics for approching the piano of my parents, the one of my grand-father and that i did played since i was boarn, in 1968.
i was happy with it, even was it on Pianoteq 1 yes ,the first version in 2005....

....time passed but i did many other things...
but of course i still plan to dive a new time into tryes and hears for same thing into Pianoteq 6

... then i listened for last demos about "C. Bechstein Digital Grand" and... well
my questions to Philippe Guillaume :
-Can you evaluate the time you do spend for modelising an instrument like this one ?
-What material do you need for the modelisation ?
(  WAV samples RAW recording of each key
(  studying the whole instrument body with special mikes and I.R. impules done in an anechoïc piece ? )

well... what about doing the same modelising with THE real piano, which is in the flat of my parents? i think this is a dream, of course. But i wanted to post this silly question !


BRAVO for making the extreme subtilities living potentially for the eternity.
Thank you.

cslevine

Ondist and Thereminist concertist and composer
Ondes Martenot, Ondéa, Thérémin, player, composer
Messiaen's Turangalîla-Symphony in Cubase with 10 VSTi (including 4 instances of Pianoteq)

cslevine's Website

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: How about YOU modelising a specific piano ?

I realize you are asking Philippe Guillaume specifically. Have you seen the series of Moddart videos on YT?
There was  a whole series of videos from him 9 years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czjDwGl9xTQ

It could be good to see an updated series of videos, without asking too much about trade secrets and techniques.

Coupled to data regarding piano size, hammer positions, string length and so on the latest piano was almost certainly developed from the same 80GB of sample data used to develop the Kontakt library a couple of years back for the "Digital" piano, only this time as a frame of reference.
The previous Petrof was captured in an anechoic chamber. So the lesson here is either to use industry reference acoustics studio with top engineers, or simply sneak the piano into your local military radar/scientific research facility!!! 

I guess you'll be wanting a copy of the Pro version. I expect you could get pretty close to your own piano with a few weeks tweaking a similar model.

Reply by cslevine

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Re: How about YOU modelising a specific piano ?

Yes, of couse, i did tweak by ear with harmonics and other hammers parameters.
of course i do have Pianoteq Pro since the begining.

And yes, it will need only weeks of real good working at home.
And of course... with differents versions of Pianoteq, wich sounds significatly diferent, even with the sames addons.
( this wll be another forum question.
i would like that the "V1.PTQ" and "V2.PTQ" addons files could include the exact behaviours of Pianoteq 1, so that i could be able to transfer composed music with these specifics old versions, and forget the installation of Pianoteq 1.
thie is not the case. The "Grand C1" sounds differs between Pianoteq 1 and other versions, because it depends on the harmonic tables changed.
Well : ... the e is none "V1.PTQ" exactly.
is should be good that a V1.PRQ would be able to "pack" into it the exact entirely Pianoteq 1 plugin.

but this was another subject.

Ondist and Thereminist concertist and composer
Ondes Martenot, Ondéa, Thérémin, player, composer
Messiaen's Turangalîla-Symphony in Cubase with 10 VSTi (including 4 instances of Pianoteq)

cslevine's Website

Reply by Key Fumbler

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Re: How about YOU modelising a specific piano ?

cslevine wrote:

Yes, of couse, i did tweak by ear with harmonics and other hammers parameters.
of course i do have Pianoteq Pro since the begining.

Your original post is a little confusing in places. I had no knowledge of what you have in terms of software.  Maybe that's in your other posts, I haven't read the entire forum history.

cslevine wrote:

And of course... with differents versions of Pianoteq, wich sounds significatly diferent, even with the sames addons.
( this wll be another forum question.
i would like that the "V1.PTQ" and "V2.PTQ" addons files could include the exact behaviours of Pianoteq 1, so that i could be able to transfer composed music with these specifics old versions, and forget the installation of Pianoteq 1.
thie is not the case. The "Grand C1" sounds differs between Pianoteq 1 and other versions, because it depends on the harmonic tables changed.
Well : ... the e is none "V1.PTQ" exactly.
is should be good that a V1.PRQ would be able to "pack" into it the exact entirely Pianoteq 1 plugin.

but this was another subject.

I came in late in version 5. No idea about all that. I don't understand the problem you have with running old versions to maintain backwards compatibility with obsolete physical models. I can understand Moddart wanting the latest version to run only the best models possible.  The legacy versions can still sound nice (listening on YT videos) but it is clear that things have moved on from this more clinical sound. I would not want people accidentally loading really old instrument versions into the latest version to show off Pianoteq. Moddart probably want to put their best foot forward at all times, competition is fierce.

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: How about YOU modelising a specific piano ?

cslevine wrote:

i have one question.
Well since a long time, i tried to deal myself xith harmonics for approching the piano of my parents, the one of my grand-father and that i did played since i was boarn, in 1968.
i was happy with it, even was it on Pianoteq 1 yes ,the first version in 2005....

....time passed but i did many other things...
but of course i still plan to dive a new time into tryes and hears for same thing into Pianoteq 6

... then i listened for last demos about "C. Bechstein Digital Grand" and... well
my questions to Philippe Guillaume :
-Can you evaluate the time you do spend for modelising an instrument like this one ?
-What material do you need for the modelisation ?
(  WAV samples RAW recording of each key
(  studying the whole instrument body with special mikes and I.R. impules done in an anechoïc piece ? )

well... what about doing the same modelising with THE real piano, which is in the flat of my parents? i think this is a dream, of course. But i wanted to post this silly question !


BRAVO for making the extreme subtilities living potentially for the eternity.
Thank you.

cslevine

Thank you Claude-Samuel for your kind words!

Regarding your question (which is anything but silly), it takes a lot of time for building a Pianoteq model, several months including the beta tests. There is an "automatic" part once the model has been fed by various inputs (piano characteristics including measures and recordings), which goes quite fast, followed by a "manual" part where the instrument is fine-tuned. This part, which can be called virtual instrument manufacturing, is the most interesting, and very similar to real instrument manufacturing, in particular concerning design, tuning and voicing. This part is highly subjective (I don't know how to fine-measure the quality/beauty of a sound), and may very well never end, as you can notice in our recent revoicing of Steinways D and B and K2 grand. Being subjective, it's also the part where the beta team plays a fundamental role.

Regarding dreams, I also dream of making the whole process automatic, but we are not there yet!

EDIT: changed nothing to anything, thanks to ED!

Philippe Guillaume's Website

Reply by EvilDragon

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Re: How about YOU modelising a specific piano ?

Philippe Guillaume wrote:

Regarding your question (which is nothing but silly)!

Heh, heh - you probably wanted to say that the question is "anything BUT silly". Not an insignificant difference there.

Hard work and guts!

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: How about YOU modelising a specific piano ?

EvilDragon wrote:
Philippe Guillaume wrote:

Regarding your question (which is nothing but silly)!

Heh, heh - you probably wanted to say that the question is "anything BUT silly". Not an insignificant difference there.

Ha, surely, I was a bit unsure of it, so checked the google translation who did not screem, but that doesn't prove anything... thank you ED, I have corrected my post

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Reply by cslevine

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Re: How about YOU modelising a specific piano ?

Thank you Dear Philippe for your awnser.

( in french : nous sommes entre passionnés de longue date, depuis 2005  :-)  )


Another dream :
i would like some other orchestral percussions in Pianoteq :
- timbals
- orchestral Bass drum
- cymbals, gongs, woodblock/templeblocks

....and that it would be possible to arrange some droms set on the same keyboard.

....and some way, after, of some multitimbral possibility, with the 16 MIDI channel in one instance of Pianoteq. it could be a v7 "killer feature"   ;-)



OK there is Chromaphone, but Chromaphone is more specialised in creations, more than real simulations. Even if some are goods.

Ondist and Thereminist concertist and composer
Ondes Martenot, Ondéa, Thérémin, player, composer
Messiaen's Turangalîla-Symphony in Cubase with 10 VSTi (including 4 instances of Pianoteq)

cslevine's Website