Topic: Changing velocity curve for upright playing

I was wondering, how to adjust your individual optimal velocity curve for playing a grand piano to a curve, that simulates an upright piano.
My attempt was something like this (example with standard velocity curve): Velocity = [17, 17, 127; 0, 19, 127]
The relevant part is just that you need to press more to get the quietest tone, but this tone is louder than the quietest tone of a grand.
So pianissimo is harder, or to some extend not possible. Thats just my experience with uprights, would you confirm this?

Last edited by minor7add9 (09-10-2018 21:15)

Re: Changing velocity curve for upright playing

Hi mino7add9, interesting thoughts.

I'd suggest beginning with the "Dynamics" slider instead.

If that does't fit the bill by itself, next I'd go on to other things like hammer hardness and direct sound duration.

After some choices along those lines only then would I make some velocity curve tweaks.

Nothing is right/wrong or good/bad in terms of how the keys feel to your hands - it's what feels real or better to you which matters in the end but I've found best success for myself when getting to the curve last as a design element. Seems taking care of the other elements either alleviate the need to alter curve, or at least give me some more sane curve tweak in the end. (Finding Piantoeq's default curve working better in recent versions).

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: Changing velocity curve for upright playing

It'd be interesting to sit next to an acoustic upright/grand, and also a Pianoteq set up, to emulate the acoustic.  The dynamics and tone could be altered to suit, more or less, what you'd hear, feel and experience on the acoustic.

And if a digital piano displayed this in the showroom . . . .would it sell?

I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order

Re: Changing velocity curve for upright playing

Forgot to add about the curve supplied as example, there's a hanging dot (a peak without a mountain) which could be double clicked to remove (at times these can result in glitchy behaviour - or not - but prob good to kill it off before copy/pasting this and finding it in all your other presets - which at some point may become problematic in the case of an update suddenly changing the way they are handled) - but I think you're onto something with that curve minor7add9.  I see you want to begin soft and ramp up steep - but maybe try the following - just my gut feel that it might be worth it.


Uprights will generally have lighter key action and be quicker to 127, (of course comparing to concert grand not set up to be light, not average home piano).


Here's the velocity curve supplied with the "U4 Honky Tonk" and "Ruined" preset. (I should post also in case anyone reading is not aware, you can use these in Pianoteq, by selecting and copying the whole line, from the word Velocity to the last bracket, then pasting into the curve window, so no need to retype):


Velocity = [0, 40, 90, 127; 0, 50, 100, 127]


You can see a fairly small tweak but gives credible start point I have found.


It begins low, gets higher in middle quicker. You could try some version of this - I find that getting too extreme with velocity curves can often result in less realistic (or more damaged) key action.  Oversized curves can totally strangle the ability for the piano to sing, as if say "mf" being too high to neigbours, followed by jumps and cuts is making too many clashing data points for it to all gel properly and sound real.


Or this kind of thing from a differing perspective:


Velocity = [0, 15, 107, 121; 6, 11, 116, 127]


It kind of begins above 0 at the left, doesn't rise as quick, but then the main slant is steepish with a small roll-off at nearer to fff, allowing reaching fff at 121 instead of 127. Maybe with some tweaks this could be a good start.


@peterws - absolutely would love to see/hear the results of some of the setups created by people on this forum. It's one thing to use Pianoteq to be worthy of playing instead of real piano (and choosing between the many) and another thing altogether to go beyond this and there are a lot of people doing really interesting things with extra speakers etc.


Since piano is such a big word - meaning instrument, unavoidable size and all the care and attention to tune and keep it in shape over years, a digital piano is often thought of as the logical and/or convenient replacement for home or small studio.  What I feel will go the longest distance in 'recreating' a piano though, revolves around taking some interesting measures to use an existing piano to run Pianoteq.  ATM there's a "rail" to install into the key bed (midi), then there's consideration of a speaker array and Transducers, to use more of the physical piano's sound etc.  Fascinating stuff. Of course, the real piano emanates sound outward, not from 2 little fixed speakers - and all this psycho acoustic labyrinthine work is almost coming to a point whereby, the best way to emulate a real piano, is to already have a real piano


As far as most of us, using Pianoteq with speakers etc. we're not probably going to reproduce that huge sound (and feeling exactly the vibration of the big rig), but can get a quality semblance of the true experience within the bounds of equipment limitations. And we can collect dozens or more fantastic pianos to suit our moods.


My take for us in that space, is that we can certainly attain a "recorded piano" sound and for most of us, the suspension of disbelief is enough to practice play and record our life's best works as we learn to get more and more notes in the right order no doubt - especially with good speakers large enough to give off something approaching the dB we'd hear sitting at the keys of a physical piano.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors