Topic: Feature request: MIDI velocity adaption per note.

Problem: the MIDI-keyboard you're playing is getting old and suffers from an uneven velocity. Some notes are way to load, others too soft.
In Pianoteq Standard and Professional you can adapt the volume per note. Which is great, but with this problem you want to change the velocity, not the volume, because a different velocity gives different sound.
In the recent past I had a MP11 that I sent in for repair, one of my complaints was the uneven velocity, measured with a weight. Kawai didn't fix this, because it was still within specifications, specifications being that a variation of 15% is allowed. I found 15% variation a real problem, so what I did was feeding the MIDI-output through a Logic Environment that made some adjustments, bit of a hassle, but played much more comfortable. (in the end Kawai made a great offer for a trade-in to a MP11SE, plays much better).
Anyway, I think this would be handy for a lot of people, also for me, because I'm also using PT on Windows and Linux, that's why it's great to have so much possibilities build-in.

BTW: if somebody wants this Logic-patch I can make it available.

MP11SE, FP30; Pianoteq on Mac, Windows, Linux
Unheard Music Concepts

Re: Feature request: MIDI velocity adaption per note.

You may configure the freebie MidiPipe to adjust an individual keyboard note velocity.  It runs on a Mac, and is available as donationware at http://www.subtlesoft.square7.net/MidiPipe.html.

Last edited by Amen Ptah Ra (11-10-2018 19:20)
Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Feature request: MIDI velocity adaption per note.

Amen Ptah Ra wrote:

You may configure the freebie MidiPipe to adjust an individual keyboard note velocity.  It runs on a Mac, and is available as donationware at http://www.subtlesoft.square7.net/MidiPipe.html.

Are you sure you can do that with Midipipe? Midipipe is great software, I use it a lot, totally recommended, but can't find how to adjust individual keyboard note velocity. So if you could do some instructions, or send just a pipe that does that; would be great!

B.t.w. site seems to be down, direct download link: http://www.subtlesoft.square7.net/data/MidiPipe.zip

But still, it's only for Mac, no cross-platform solution.

MP11SE, FP30; Pianoteq on Mac, Windows, Linux
Unheard Music Concepts

Re: Feature request: MIDI velocity adaption per note.

Sorry to hear of your MP11 but glad your replacement is better.

I really like your idea via a Logic environment BTW, very cool idea. It's interesting how many ways audio can be organised.

Just offering food for thought that in Standard and Pro we're not limited to only volume per note.

I think the answer is 'dynamics' per note in Pianoteq Standard and Pro.

You can alter 'dynamics' per note - analogous to a per note adjustment to your velocity curve. Definitely should manage more than 15% higher or lower 'velocity' range for any given note.

[Maybe something for a long timeline, but a separate velo curve per note like the main one, could allow some deep adjustment.]

As for now though, as I understand it, there's not a 'velocity' per note setting anywhere only because it's a singular data point per note (0-127), whereas 'dynamic' expresses a range for each single velocity data point to fall within, relating directly to your key strike, which is variable. That's why feeding the midi through Logic is a good fix (but it's post parsing single velo data points) - but maybe keeping to Pianoteq will allow you less hassle overall, esp. if the fix is just as good or hopefully better and/or simpler. Anyway, that's what I'm hoping.

So if a stand-out note needs more velocity to get to your ideal, lowering dynamics for a note will mean you don't have to hit it as hard to get a higher velocity quicker.

Complimentary to this, regarding a stand-out note needing less velocity, by raising dynamics for that note will mean it will need to be struck with more force to get to higher velocity.

In that way, 'dynamics' is fundamentally related to 'velocity' - and should be able to do most of the heavy lifting (unless I'm really off track - happy for better understanding).

I'd be keen to try to sort out any keyboard issues with this first though (keeping it all in Piantoeq future-proof and cross-platform) - and to make any note more precise, there are also per note settings for other things which can help sculpt a perfect fix, like:

Hammer Hardness for 3 ranges, Piano, Mezzo, Forte
Hammer noise also can make a diff with velocity issues
Impedance
Blooming Energy
Blooming Inertia
and others incl. volume for a final leveling.

Any number of even tiny tweaks to some of these as well as dynamics can help make a great difference to how the 'new' edited note can fit in to it's neighbouring notes.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: Feature request: MIDI velocity adaption per note.

Marc Verhoeven wrote:
Amen Ptah Ra wrote:

You may configure the freebie MidiPipe to adjust an individual keyboard note velocity.  It runs on a Mac, and is available as donationware at http://www.subtlesoft.square7.net/MidiPipe.html.

Are you sure you can do that with Midipipe? Midipipe is great software, I use it a lot, totally recommended, but can't find how to adjust individual keyboard note velocity. So if you could do some instructions, or send just a pipe that does that; would be great!

B.t.w. site seems to be down, direct download link: http://www.subtlesoft.square7.net/data/MidiPipe.zip

But still, it's only for Mac, no cross-platform solution.


Certainly on a per note basis and in conjunction with Midi Patchbay, MidiPipe permits velocity adjustments to all your problematic MIDI keyboards.  Firstly from a Midi Patchbay window you must create a separate patch per each problem note or note range, and, name each patch output accordingly (that is) if you want to eventually associate the patches correspondingly with inputs into MidiPipe.  I suggest you name each patch output to correspond with every particular key or key range you intend to fix.  Names such as Eb4 and D#5-F5 (D#5 through F5) are examples.  However a Midi Patchbay Eb4 is an equivalent to a MidiPipe Eb5 sent via a Yamaha keyboard.

Secondly from your MidiPipe window you may create a single pipe to include many velocity modifiers, as many modifiers as required to fix any troublesome keyboard key or others, like an isolated key by itself or a series of adjacent keys similarly faulty, equally, necessitating a single modifier adjustment. 

Finally with each velocity modifier preceded by its own Midi In, which in itself has the selected MIDI Input that was aptly named, beforehand from the Midi Patchbay window, the final pipe will need a solitary Midi Out.

Midi Patchbay is available for downloads from http://notahat.com/midi_patchbay/.

Last edited by Amen Ptah Ra (15-10-2018 08:02)
Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Feature request: MIDI velocity adaption per note.

Qexl wrote:

Sorry to hear of your MP11 but glad your replacement is better.

I really like your idea via a Logic environment BTW, very cool idea. It's interesting how many ways audio can be organised.

Just offering food for thought that in Standard and Pro we're not limited to only volume per note.

I think the answer is 'dynamics' per note in Pianoteq Standard and Pro.

Thanks!
I see your point about dynamics, but I think the most logical way to "repair" a wrong velocity per note, is to change the velocity per note ;-). And unfortunately Dynamics per note is not in Standard, only in Pro I guess.
If you want to check out the Logic-file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1tjp25piaiapq...c.zip?dl=0
There's a read me about set-up.

MP11SE, FP30; Pianoteq on Mac, Windows, Linux
Unheard Music Concepts

Re: Feature request: MIDI velocity adaption per note.

Amen Ptah Ra wrote:

Certainly on a per note basis and in conjunction with Midi Patchbay, MidiPipe permits velocity adjustments to all your problematic MIDI keyboards.

Midi Patchbay is available for downloads from http://notahat.com/midi_patchbay/.

Great! I didn't know Midi Patchbay, very handy, Thanks! Yes that should work.

I do feel however that it's a hassle to have more programs running in the background for this kind of things, and it's not cross-platform.
Besides, I fear these pretty old programs will stop working with Mac OS X 10.14.

So now we have 2 solutions for Mac (Logic, and MidiPipe+Midi Patchbay) and none for Linux or Windows.

MP11SE, FP30; Pianoteq on Mac, Windows, Linux
Unheard Music Concepts

Re: Feature request: MIDI velocity adaption per note.

Marc Verhoeven wrote:

the most logical way to "repair" a wrong velocity per note, is to change the velocity per note ;-)

Yep, no doubt - certainly true for post production, whereas dynamic per note in Pianoteq would allow the repeatable and solid finessing for your real-time playing situation on each platform with no further footprint than your existing FXPs

Just figuring it would go the distance to entirely unclogging the work-flow (and other mentioned processes/dependencies) at the same time.

Thank you for the zip - that's a really interesting idea.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: Feature request: MIDI velocity adaption per note.

I use MIDI-OX for monitoring but don't remember if you can map with that.

Here are software and hardware mapping solutions that might help

http://www.trombettworks.com/velocity.php

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodvel.htm

I know there are at least a few more Windows MIDI software mappers but can't remember the names.

Re: Feature request: MIDI velocity adaption per note.

music_guy wrote:

I use MIDI-OX for monitoring but don't remember if you can map with that.

Here are software and hardware mapping solutions that might help

http://www.trombettworks.com/velocity.php

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodvel.htm

I know there are at least a few more Windows MIDI software mappers but can't remember the names.

Thanks for the suggestions!.
Unfortunately MIDI-OX doesn't seem to work well on Windows 10.
Velocity Changer does basically the same as Pianoteq's Velocity Curve, so no velocity per key.
MIDI Solutions... hardware, some programmable MIDI-gadget... interesting idea; couldn't find changing of velocity per key; might be possible. Could be a solution; not cheap, extra hardware.
Very interested if you could remember more programs of this type.

MP11SE, FP30; Pianoteq on Mac, Windows, Linux
Unheard Music Concepts

Re: Feature request: MIDI velocity adaption per note.

Hi all,

A friend of us is developing a velocity remapping tool, with the possibility to use a different velocity curve for some keys, or only for black keys etc. It's cross-platform, so it works on both Windows and macOS. You can find it here: https://springbeats.com/velpro/

Re: Feature request: MIDI velocity adaption per note.

julien wrote:

Hi all,

A friend of us is developing a velocity remapping tool, with the possibility to use a different velocity curve for some keys, or only for black keys etc. It's cross-platform, so it works on both Windows and macOS. You can find it here: https://springbeats.com/velpro/

Great tool!  Velpro is system-wide, so it will fix your keyboard for all program's at once.
Personally I would prefer something like this (might be simpler) inside PT; because it runs also on Linux, and I like to have my live-rig as simple as possible.

MP11SE, FP30; Pianoteq on Mac, Windows, Linux
Unheard Music Concepts

Re: Feature request: MIDI velocity adaption per note.

For Windows I found this one:
http://users.belgacom.net/gc813607/index.html

But I'm also still looking for a good Linux solution to adjust the velocity of individual keys on my keyboard that are way too loud. I've found these potential solutions so far, but they don't look as easy to use as the Windows / Mac equivalents:
- KeyKit : http://www.nosuch.com/keykit/
- mididings : http://das.nasophon.de/mididings/

Any other Linux options? Thanks!