Best closed back headphones for Pianoteq?

I think you are not quite right...

I have bought and returned:
V-Moda M100
Bose QuietComfort25
Beyerdynamic DT770 pro 80Ohm (without headphone amp)
Sennheiser BT450
Sennheiser HD25

I kept: Audio Technica ATHM50x

Why? I tested all the headphone with multiple Piano VSTs: Pianoteq, Ivory American Concert D, Ravenscroft275, Grandeur & Alica Keys

For me the ATHM50x was the best of all the above mentioned, especially many of the above mentioned were having problems with American Concert D and they sounded muffled (I assume the DT770 pro because it was 80 ohm without an amp).

Hence, I think from my personal experience the ATH M50x are actually very good for their price range. Except you want to step it up and move towards the Sennheiser HD 600 (open back sounds more realistic with piano due to its wider soundstage). However I don't believe the HD600 are sounding about $400 better than the AT M50x....

Maybe it helps, good luck to you on this adventure of achieving better sound (struggled a lot with it haha )

I haven't tested the ATH M70... but I read lots of reviews when deciding which one to order myself back then. I was reading that it is a little flatter than then ATM50x... which has a little bass boost compared to a very flat headphone.

I would try to identify for you... do you dislike the Pianoteq sound? If yes, in what aspects? too hollow? too much bass? too little?

Pianoteq on my studio monitors (JBL LSR 308) sounds very similar to the ATH M50x.... I would say even a little flatter with less bass on the studio monitors. For instance Grotrian Recording 3 sounds pretty good on the ATH M50x... on the LSR 308 it lacks a little fullness and richness (I don't own the sub YET - coming in 4 days due to a good deal )

So I would try to identify what you dislike about the sound, maybe the sound is just the way it is... and it's not the headphone. I love Pianoteq and it's my number one choice for playing.... but if I have to look at it only sound wise the Ravenscroft275 sounds even better and fuller in my opinion...

hope it helps!

I honestly think that your stereo system is coloring the sound a little bit that results in even sounding better.
Your ATH M50x probably is a little more "flat" maybe? I can emphasize what you're saying... because Pianoteq through studio monitors also sounds a little unnatural (when you really listen critically). It sounds really good but still not like a 100% real piano.. (what are we asking ^^)

I don't believe an upgrade in another headphone will bring you a SIGNIFICANT better sound. Again maybe a little bit. Do you have the chance to try a samples piano on those ATH M50x e.g. Ravenscroft , American Concert D ?

Also do you feel Pianoteq also sounds unnatural listening to the demos on the Pianoteq website through your ATH M50x compared to listening to the same demos through your stereo system?

Hello All,

I completely agree that Pianoteq sounds better to me when played through a good stereo system versus when played through good headphones.

Possibly, this might lend reason as to why this is so:  Every stereo system makes use of the room's acoustic in which the system resides.  This is even true of a car stereo, whereas the headphone experience -- by design -- allows ONLY the direct sound to be picked up by one's eardrums.  By definition, there is some amount of "air" (whatever that means) around the piano's sound when one listens to a stereo system.  The lack of the room's interaction is what causes a headphone listener to experience the "in-the-head" sound.

Yes, I have experienced at times when a headphone's sound seems to come from outside the 'phones, but that is often more wishful thinking (think about the placebo effect) than what is actually happening.

Speaking from headphone experience, having owned open-backed headphones (AKG 702), sound-canceling closed headphones (Bose Quietcomfort II), and in-ear monitors by AKG ... I always prefer open-backed 'phones because they let in a little of the room ambience and seem to help with the sound.   (Of course, my wife despises my open-backed AKG 702s, because she can hear the music when I am using them -- she insists that I am ruining my ears from playing those things way too loudly.  But that's another story!)

Cheers,

Joe

Whatever works best for you -- headphones or stereo system -- IS the one that works best for you.  There is no single definitive answer to this topic.

Jazz legend, Duke Ellington, once stated: "If it sounds good, [then] it IS good."

Who am "I" (or anyone else) to dictate what you should or should not listen to, regarding headphones and/or stereo system?  All anyone can do is to offer his or her opinion.  In the end, we must find out what makes us most happy regarding the use of Pianoteq.

Cheers,

Joe

Don't forget Ultrasone. Not exactly cheap, but I just love my Pro900.

Ahh, very well stated on your part too!  Ironically, although I "like" the sound of Pianoteq on my stereo system better than through headphones, most of my practicing and critical listening is done through my headphones.  My stereo system consists of a pair of B&W Matrix 801 Series II loudspeakers being played through a Krell amplifier, bi-wired with 400 watts RMS into 8 ohms per channel.  Whenever I tell someone about the Krell amp and how powerful it is, their immediate answer is that I must surely play it "loud"!  Such is not the case:  Actually, I rely on the Krell to give me "dynamic headroom" before distortion sets in.  (This is even more important when making use of Pianoteq's unusually high amount of available dynamic range; many other stereo systems seem to "crap out" when I play a CD of my Pianoteq solo piano recordings on less capable systems.)

Although these B&Ws are true floor-standing studio monitors of the type used for years in Abbey Road Studios, and by London/Decca and Deutsche Gramophon for large-scale orchestral works, I still use my headphones so as not to bother my wife or the neighbors, especially in early evenings.  Ironically, some of my most satisfying headphone listening comes when I pair my 'phones with a powered M&K subwoofer -- which gives an almost visceral feeling even when playing solo piano music.

Cheers,

Joe

Hello everyone,
Are there as good closed headphones as open? The planar headphones are usually open (except the Audeze LCD-XC model may have to try?). After testing on several models of high-end headphones, I preferred a daily Kennerton Odin model (1st generation). With a good DAC Pianoteq is very precisely highlighted (provided you avoid too high levels). I did a short test with Kennerton Tror last month, even more subtle, and especially with less high-level distortion. Unfortunately as part of what you are looking for, it's open headphones ..

I fully agree that Sonarworks greatly enhances Pianoteq sound using headphones, and it supports pretty much every popular headphone on the market. However, on my Mac it adds 50ms latency. This makes active playing all but impossible. Do you know of a way to use Sonarworks without latency?

To answer your original question, it mostly depends on budget. I used to own an ATH-M50 (predecessor to M50x), and at the $100-$150 price point they're stellar, despite noticeable bass and treble boost. Once you start getting into truly high-end headphones, closed back becomes rarer and rarer. I currently use and love a Shure SRH1540, but those are $500, and still not perfect - they're also slightly bass boosted, though significantly less so than the M50/M50x. They're flat enough that I use them with Pianoteq without EQ and am never disappointed. If you have the money, they're worth a look.