Topic by caters

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Topic: Always having trouble with Presto

No matter how much I practice, allegro vivace tends to be my dead on maximum speed except for a few lucky times. Allegro though is usually my maximum speed with no mistakes.

For example, as I practiced Solfeggio in C minor by C.P.E Bach, this is how I went about it:

1) hands separate, adagio
2) hands together, adagio
3) dynamics, adagio
4) andante
5) Moderato
6) Allegro

And before I went on to the next step I made sure that I made absolutely 0 mistakes.

But as I try to speed it up further this happens:

7) Molto Allegro, few minor mistakes(wrong note for example)
8) Vivace, several mistakes, a few major(wrong octave for example)
9) Presto and Prestissimo, all wrong

There are a few lucky times when I was able to play it presto with 0 mistakes but usually it goes all wrong at Presto, no matter the piece.

This is a major problem for me. How am I ever going to play Toccata and Fugue in D minor if I can't do Presto with 0 mistakes every time. How am I going to play most of Chopin's pieces? How will I play extremely fast notes(like 64ths and faster)?

I have the right handshape all the time.

I make sure I have no mistakes at Allegro.

If I need to, I do it part by part.

And yet, except when I am lucky, I can't do Presto.

Why? Why?

I am able to do trills and tremolos extremely fast. Why can't I do Presto? Why is Allegro my maximum speed without mistakes?

And how can I make myself able to do presto without mistakes when at Presto, no matter how few mistakes(0 or a few minor), it all goes horribly wrong most of the time? It should be as simple as wide and not so wide turns, tremolos, and trills and I am able to do those.

As for a piano teacher, I once had one but she got rude at me during my second year(don't know if it was because I wanted to learn more complicated pieces faster than the average person or what but she was rude about it). So from then on, I have taught myself how to play certain piano pieces.

I think there is something missing in my attempts at Presto.

Something besides practice at allegro, handshape, part by part for some pieces(Mostly those like Eine Kleine Natchtmusic), and sheer luck.

How can I get myself to do presto without mistakes? Should I say something like "This is just like 1 big trill. You can do it I know you can. You're good at trills. Just remember the trill and you will be able to do it."

What should I do because practice is only enough to get me to Allegro.

Reply by jcfelice88keys

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  • jcfelice88keys
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Re: Always having trouble with Presto

Hello Mr. Caters,

Unless you practice individual phrases at Presto, only a very small minority of pianists can magically play a piece at presto, -- when practiced at adagio, andante, moderato and allegro.  To be able to play well at presto, one needs to practice at presto.

Here's how to approach the CPE Bach piece:

While playing presto,  practice playing the first nine notes as a phrase:  Eb (RH) C Eb G (LH) C Eb D C B (RH) using the following fingering: 2 (RH) 5 3 1 (LH) 2 4 3 2 1 (RH).  Do this short 9-note phrase several times until you can play it "like the wind."  Try it several times 'presto' with eyes closed (to ensure the learning of muscle memory).  You should be able to complete these nine notes within approximately 1/2 second.

Then go on to the next nine note phrase (which includes the B natural of the previous phrase played with your right thumb): B (RH thumb) G B D (LH 5 3 1) G F Eb D Eb (RH 4 3 2 1 2).  Again, practice this 'presto'.  When you are able to do this flawlessly, then connect all 17 notes of the first two phrases (18 notes minus 1 for the common B natural played at the end the first phrase, which launches the second phrase).

. . . . . .

I do not have the score in front of me, so I don't know which measure number this is, but go to the part where you are in f minor and find the descending f minor arpeggios played with two hands.  Although this is perhaps the hardest part of this piece, when you break it down as follows, you will have no trouble playing it presto ... after practicing it presto:

Your left hand plays these four individual sixteenth notes (semiquavers) Ab F MiddleC Ab with a pause between each note to account for the three notes phrases played by the right hand.   However, practice these four left hand notes so they become automatic.  They form the notes of a descending f minor chord.

In this same place, practice the right hand notes separately as clusters of three descending notes:  F C Ab (RH 521), C Ab F (RH 421), Ab F C (RH 421), F C Ab (RH 521).  Please note these are all f minor arpeggios.   Next, practice both hands in groups of only four notes L R R R, until you are able to find each set of notes.

Hopefully this helps.

Cheers,

Joe

P.S.  I do not wish to turn this into a piano tutorial, as this was only an example of how to practice at the tempo of presto.

Reply by caters

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Re: Always having trouble with Presto

I have tried to speed up from allegro but 2 things stop me in my tracks.

1) The exponential increase in mistakes no matter how hard I try(Presto, horribly wrong, Molto Allegro, a few minor)

and

2) My momma saying "Slow that down, you are making too many mistakes" when I tell her "I can do it with 0 mistakes at allegro and this is presto, I am bound to get mistakes"

This essentially blocks me from doing Presto except when I am lucky.

But if I ever want to play Grande Valse Brilliante by Chopin or Toccata and Fugue in D minor by Bach or even In the Hall of the Mountain King by Greig, I need to be able to do presto with practice and not just with luck.

That last bit of In the Hall of the Mountain King is at presto due to the constant accelerando in the piece.

Reply by Chopin87

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Re: Always having trouble with Presto

Use a metronome and speed up gradually the tempo mark. Whenever you make one or more mistakes decrease it again and restart. Repeat 'till you get to your target time. This is the basic technique to speed up pieces or difficult phrases.

Last edited by Chopin87 (26-08-2016 21:50)
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