Topic by Analogus

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Topic: Microphone setup - suggestions best for player-realism

Hi all!

Being able to fumble with microphones now (bought the upgrade from stage yesterday due to the 30% off), I'm searching fo a very 'realistic' setup for a PLAYERS PERSPECTIVE.
Simple to have the most possible realistic setup like sitting in front of a real piano. As you can save the setup and give it a name to reuse it on other piano-models or configurations, I try to produce the 'ok for me'-MFXP-file.

Wishes:
- realistic 3d-position: piano on the right place and of course stereo (bass on the left ...)
- 'thick, fully & rich' volume (to compensate my lack in playability); I do not like 'thin' volumes
- reverb? I do not know. Suggestions?

'Binaural' is not what seems to be very realistic for me. It does play more 'in' my head than putting the piano in front of me.

I wonder if 2 mics on the position of the head of a player is any better than setups with 2 mics on the side or under the lid. Is there a strong point in having 3 ore more mics for achieving more realistic feeling?

Of course I played quite a time with the setups delivered with K2 and D4 to get a feeling. And of course I searched the forum, sadly without very much success. I'm just a once at a week player an beginner, additionally without knowledge in mic-setup for recordings. So in my ears, changing the position of the mics is far more audible and has more impact than chosing another piano model , e.g. the Model B.

Suggestions, screenshots of setup or, better, MFXP-files are very welcome.

Novice playing piano...

Reply by dklein

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Re: Microphone setup - suggestions best for player-realism

Much of my own pursuits as well.

Lots of this is very speaker position and orientation-dependent, as I have been learning.  Check out a post of mine from earlier this morning:

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=4625

With respect to using the binaural setting, I agree that it's not ideal for driving speakers, but it's not too bad.  The most realistic position that I found was what I would term a "high binaural" position, as if I was standing and leaning over the piano the way Elton John does (but it sounds as if I'm sitting correctly).  For my speaker positioning, I keep the width at about 30%. 

https://goo.gl/photos/1imM9x95x6awbUHy9

As for the microphone set-up, I like the Player one from the Model B, again using the 30% width.

https://goo.gl/photos/zR5CgDcH5UrcuULF8

I'm curious to hear what you hear,

- David

- David

Reply by Analogus

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Re: Microphone setup - suggestions best for player-realism

@dklein:

Hi!

Tested your setup which I copied after your screenshots. Thanks!

My opinion:
Binaural: your setup is much better than the standard configuration. Higher position sounds better. Simple and effective.
2 mics: this very simple setup sounds very good and in my ears a bit more realistic (and 'better') than the binaural one.

But as mentioned - I use a headphone. Which leads to the result that the music can be IN my head instead of in front of me (as it always should be with speakers).

I'll use the second setup as interim solution. Simple but good. Nothing better so far for me. Now experimenting with altering the angle between the mics: it makes a great difference when parallel, convergent (your setup) or even divergent (which sounds more like 'binaural').

Novice playing piano...

Reply by dklein

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Re: Microphone setup - suggestions best for player-realism

...And I never could quite decide the relationship was between how big the virtual headphones are (hold a mouse button and slide forward, if I recall) versus changing the width setting.

- David

Reply by Aidan

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Re: Microphone setup - suggestions best for player-realism

For headphone usage you really need to use the TB-Isone plugin.

This produced amazing realism for me using headphones, miles superior then the Binaural settings.

Ehudk made a post about it here which got me on to it. The default (free) settings worked fine for me.

You can set it up on a Mac also using Audio Hijack.
Pianotrq with Audio Hijack
It helps to run Audio Hijack in lower latency mode (in the options).

It would be great if Pianoteq could internally do what TB-Isone does (it could go nicely into the Microphone setup screen) if they could figure out how it works.

Last edited by Aidan (23-08-2016 07:40)

Reply by dklein

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Re: Microphone setup - suggestions best for player-realism

Thanks.  Very interesting.  I'll check it out as time permits.

- David

Reply by Analogus

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Re: Microphone setup - suggestions best for player-realism

This software seems to be appropriate. I will try it out as soon as possible. Audio Hijack is already on bord an working.
I'll give feedback!

Novice playing piano...

Reply by Analogus

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Re: Microphone setup - suggestions best for player-realism

Feedback to ISONE (plugin):

Testet it. Sadly for me it's not working well.
Yes, it's necessary to configure it individually - you can find the roadmap in the manual. But in my case, partly I was not able to hear any difference changing for example head size or ear size - and therefor I was not able to find a working configuration. 

In the end, the sound remained IN my head instead of, as expected, in front of me.

Of course I tested different mic-settings in PinanoTeq, tried with and without effects and reverbs, ... in combination with different setups of ISONE. Best result I got was a dolby surround-life feeling. Which is good. But then the sound loses quality (?) or at least bass and volume.

Maybe it's a question of headphone-model. In my case I use the B&W P5.

Novice playing piano...