Topic by dklein

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Topic: Changes in speaker position, changes in timbre

"Changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes"

So, as I feel that messing with Pianoteq is a sub-hobby that is keeping me from spending as much time actually learning to play the piano as I would otherwise do, I have swapped out my speakers to either side of my piano, changed the position of the new speakers, and noticed that I get what appeared to be huge changes in the treble of my Pianoteq presets (but not huge changes in my sampled pianos such as the Native Instruments The Grandeur and Alicia's Keys).

I was using Emotiva AirMotiv6 speakers, position to either side of the piano facing the ceiling, and then I tried to turn them towards each other, underneath the keyboard on their speaker stands, to see if that would give better imaging with respect to convincing my brain that the sound was actually coming from the piano. It worked pretty well, but was a little thin compared to the real piano (an upright 53 inch) played acoustically.

As I had purchased speakers before completing a TV/media room, I also had a pair of Emotiva Stealth 8 speakers that were currently unused. I put them in the same position as the AirMotiv 6 speakers, and, while they had much more presence, the bass was quite boomy. After not doing a great job of reducing the booming bass just by setting the switches in the back to reduce the bass output, I turned the Stealth 8 speakers on the speaker stands so that they now face behind and past me, towards the wall in back of me while I sit at the piano. This eliminated the boomy base, left me with excellent presence (where I can feel the piano as well as hear it, even at a low volume level), but made all of my treble sound too bright, such that I am going through my modified presets and reducing the hammer hardness – it's as if I had put thumbtacks onto all the hammers!

Points learned from this exercise, which is still in progress:

1) One person's favorite Pianoteq preset can become another person's least favorite preset, as the presets can vary greatly, especially with respect to brilliance and hammer hardness, depending upon the type of speakers and their orientation. In my case originally, the treble had been masked by the position of the speakers where they did not play directly to my ears but had parts of the piano intervening in the "line of sight" – they are quite different now that they have become, again, near-field monitors.

2) Especially looking at the behaviors of sound and simulated pianos in number one above, it's not clear to me why the sampled sound of the Native Instruments The Grandeur as well as Alicia's Keys has done very well for me, no matter how I have positioned or tweaked my larger or smaller speakers (not identical with different speaker positions, but wholly enjoyable and realistic sounding).

David

- David

Reply by Luc Henrion

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Re: Changes in speaker position, changes in timbre

There is another very important element: the room. And the place of the speakers in the room, noticeably the proimity (or not) of walls.

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Reply by dklein

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Re: Changes in speaker position, changes in timbre

Yes, very important, especially for bass response.  That is the very reason that I turned the speakers from pointing at each other under the keyboard, to facing away from the piano.  What I essentially done was create a "mini room" that had three sides: the underside of the keyboard with the ceiling, lower panel of the piano was the wall, and the floor was the floor.  This was REALLY boomy.

I do not think that the room matters quite as much for treble response..  But, in any case, I have fixed one problem while causing another issue… Such is life!

- David

Reply by Sodium

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Re: Changes in speaker position, changes in timbre

Hi,

I'm currently facing the same issue here. I used to play on a numeric piano and altough it was nothing fancy reguarding it's sound, it did the job quite well for practicing.

Now i don't have the piano anymore and use my Midi Keyboard, à 88 keys Akai with a pretty good action and have tried it with Pianoteq 5 as well as other plugins i own (a bunch of Native Instruments models including Alicia Keys and Eastwest Piano gold) and altough the sound is far better in term of quality, it just can't get used to the sound not comming from the keyboard's speakers.

First of all, i can't use my studio monitors unless i'm willing to move about 40kg of hardware arround to get the keyboard in front of the computer, so that sucks. I tried it with my two studio headphones and don't like it very much, it's way to trebbly and kinda hurt my ears (i'm hyper-sensitive to high pitched sounds). I tried placing an old pair of computer monitors that cost around 35$ bucks and the sound is painfully thin, it actually sounds more like a harp starting 1.5 octaves above middle C.

I could invest in better hifi speakers but i'm not sure it will be much help, i believe it has more to do with the place the sound is comming from than the quality of the speakers. There's just something about the stereo and dynamic that just don't feel like i'm actually playing piano.

Weirdly, i don't feel like it's an issue on other instruments such as synths, organs or symphonic strings. I guess it's because i'm not expecting for some kind of acoustic sensations an so don't mind it isn't there.

Anyway, if anyone has any kind of miracle solution, i'm all ears.

Reply by dklein

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Re: Changes in speaker position, changes in timbre

Does your keyboard have an external audio input jack?   If so,  running the output from Pianoteq into the keyboard to play out of the keyboard's speakers will cause the keyboard to vibrate when you key it,  which will increase the sensation that it is a "real" instrument.

- David

Reply by Sodium

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Re: Changes in speaker position, changes in timbre

Sadly no, it's a pure Midi master keyboard.
I'll probably re-invest in a numeric piano later, but being out of work right now i'll have to wait, which sucks because i've never had the time to practice seriously before haha.