Topic by mike1127

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Topic: Pro Version, 192 KHz Sampling Rate, better sound?

I am an audiophile and in listening to classical music recordings, I enjoy high resolution audio (i.e. sampling rates such as 192 KHz). I notice that the Pro version says it has an "internal sampling rate" of 192 KHz. I am not clear if the word "internal" means it is capable of sending output to the sound card at 192 KHz.

(1) Can it send output to the sound card at 192 KHz? Can it write to a file?

(2) How powerful a computer does one need to play 192 KHz in real time?

(3) Finally, does it sound better at 192 KHz (assuming you are using a sound card or DAC that can truly play back at 192)?

Regarding the question of "sounding better", I realize this is somewhat subjective. Primarily what I would hope for is greater coherence and presence in the high harmonics, leading to more presence and snap in the overall presentation across the keyboard.

Mike

Reply by jcfelice88keys

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Re: Pro Version, 192 KHz Sampling Rate, better sound?

Hello Mike,

I cannot answer your question with absolute authority, because my Apogee Duet "only" goes up to 96kHz.  My latest version of Ptq PRO seems to "only" match the highest sample rate of my Apogee, again 96kHz.  Just for fun, I reduced my Apogee (device tab) to 48kHz, and then looked under the "performance" setting under Ptq PRO's option tab.  Lo and behold, what was previously showing up as 96kHz in the performance area was now showing up as 48Hz.

To recap, Pianoteq PRO seems to mimic the ability of one's sound device's maximum setting.  As regards to your second question of how powerful a computer is needed to play 192kHz (or 384kHz for that matter), I must defer to someone else for that answer. 

Hope this helps,

Joe

Reply by mike1127

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Re: Pro Version, 192 KHz Sampling Rate, better sound?

jcfelice88keys wrote:

Hello Mike,

I cannot answer your question with absolute authority, because my Apogee Duet "only" goes up to 96kHz.  My latest version of Ptq PRO seems to "only" match the highest sample rate of my Apogee, again 96kHz.  Just for fun, I reduced my Apogee (device tab) to 48kHz, and then looked under the "performance" setting under Ptq PRO's option tab.  Lo and behold, what was previously showing up as 96kHz in the performance area was now showing up as 48Hz.

To recap, Pianoteq PRO seems to mimic the ability of one's sound device's maximum setting.  As regards to your second question of how powerful a computer is needed to play 192kHz (or 384kHz for that matter), I must defer to someone else for that answer. 

Hope this helps,

Joe

Thanks. I'm not clear on how to infer whether the DAC is playing back at 96 KHz from what you wrote, as opposed to downsampling somewhere in the chain. Do you have any reason to doubt that it is truly playing at 96 KHz when the performance setting is showing 96 KHz?

Did you compare the sound of 96 KHz with 48 KHz?

My DAC can handle 192 KHz as well as 384 KHz, but the PRO docs say Ptq maximum is 192.

There are a few senses in which a computer can be "powerful" enough to handle 192 KHz. My computer definitely can stream audio data at 192 KHz via USB 3.0 to my DAC, so it's good in that sense. I'm more interested in the demand on the CPU for Ptq to do the modeling computations, and whether Ptq can take advantage of multiple cores.

Mike

Reply by SteveLy

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Re: Pro Version, 192 KHz Sampling Rate, better sound?

I answered one of your questions here:
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic...42#p943442

Does it sound better? No. And it shouldn't, given the limitations of human physiology. It's more for recording and if you want to do extreme digital processing to the sound afterwards --- like floating precision colour in images that's there not because it makes for a better picture but so that you can Photoshop the bejeebus out of it and quantisation noise won't rear its ugly head.

Last edited by SteveLy (26-05-2016 09:24)
3/2 = 5

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Reply by mike1127

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Re: Pro Version, 192 KHz Sampling Rate, better sound?

SteveLy wrote:

I answered one of your questions here:
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic...42#p943442

Does it sound better? No. And it shouldn't, given the limitations of human physiology. It's more for recording and if you want to do extreme digital processing to the sound afterwards --- like floating precision colour in images that's there not because it makes for a better picture but so that you can Photoshop the bejeebus out of it and quantisation noise won't rear its ugly head.

Thanks for the explanation of internal versus external sampling rates.

I don't want to dismiss whether it sounds better for technical reasons, as technical issues are complex, often involve a learning curve (CD "perfect sound forever" anyone?)  and higher sampling rates affect more how the DAC performs than how the ear performs. I would like to hear a report of listening experiments conducted with good equipment and sharp ears.

Mike

Reply by SteveLy

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Re: Pro Version, 192 KHz Sampling Rate, better sound?

mike1127 wrote:

I would like to hear a report of listening experiments conducted with good equipment and sharp ears.

I highly doubt such experiments have ever been done. I reckon for the foreseeable future any listening experiments involving Pianoteq will focus on modelled vs acoustic instruments rather than sampling rates.

Last edited by SteveLy (26-05-2016 13:31)
3/2 = 5

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Reply by mike1127

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Re: Pro Version, 192 KHz Sampling Rate, better sound?

SteveLy wrote:

I highly doubt such experiments have ever been done. I reckon for the foreseeable future any listening experiments involving Pianoteq will focus on modelled vs acoustic instruments rather than sampling rates.

Interesting. Okay, thanks for the input.

Mike