Topic: How about some more harpsichord models?

I’d love Modartt to expand on the harpsichord models. In particular, please can we have all the elements of a full concert harpsichord, e.g. with lower 8’, upper 8’, 4’, and buff stop?

Which harpsichords to model? Here are some suggestions:

(1) A Mietke model. J.S. Bach acquired a Mietke harpsichord for the Cöthen court in 1719. Three of Mietke’s harpsichords survive, and many modern builders have made good copies.

(2) A muselar/virginal. The muselar has a really distinctive sound, partly because the pluck point is closer to the middle of the string. For reference, Davitt Moroney has recorded the complete keyboard music of William Byrd, much of it on muselar.

(3) If you’re feeling really adventurous, check out David Catalunya’s website (http://www.davidcatalunya.com/clavisimbalum/). He’s exploring the earliest, 15th century versions of the proto-harpsichord, which have no damping mechanism. He’s recently been playing a “hammered clavisimbalum” - a kind of keyed psaltery - which sounds amazing.

A couple of points about harpsichords:

(1) When you couple the registers of a harpsichord together, key velocity affects how “flammed” the two (or three) sets of strings sound. At high velocities they speak almost simultaneously, but at lower velocities they increasingly flam apart. This flamming, by stammering the attack of the plectra, creates the illusion of softer dynamics.

(2) A very forceful harpsichord attack tends to cause “key bedding” - basically a percussive wooden “clunk”. No good harpsichordist does this constantly, but there are moments where it’s a legitimate element of the sound. For instance, in the third movement of Bach’s Fifth Brandenburg Concerto, at b233 the music re-sets with a big seven-note chord. That’s the kind of moment where I’d expect to hear a “clunk”.

Re: How about some more harpsichord models?

I would also love some nice gut strings. Also an extended 88 key range on at least one of them. I know the clavichord has this extended range, but the severe pitch bend makes the low notes unusable in most situations (it would be great to be able to adjust this).

Re: How about some more harpsichord models?

That's a great idea !!!

I like the harpsichords in pianoteq, but for playing, i still prefer the Mietke Harsichord in Hauptwerk.
There you can change registers and play 2 manuals.
Without that its not so funny to play baroque-music.

Re: How about some more harpsichord models?

Guy Sigsworth wrote:

I’d love Modartt to expand on the harpsichord models. In particular, please can we have all the elements of a full concert harpsichord, e.g. with lower 8’, upper 8’, 4’, and buff stop? [...]

Thank you Guy for your interesting suggestion, we will work on it.

bernybutterfly wrote:

I like the harpsichords in pianoteq, but for playing, i still prefer the Mietke Harsichord in Hauptwerk.
There you can change registers and play 2 manuals.
Without that its not so funny to play baroque-music.

The Grimaldi harpsichord in Pianoteq provides 2 registers A and B, which you can also play together (A+B presets), isn't it what you are asking for?

Re: How about some more harpsichord models?

I am a former harpsichordist, love PT for piano. The Mietke instrument is good and better than any PT harpsichords, IMHO.  I also prefer the Sonus Paradisi Ruckers to the Mietke, but this is a matter of taste, of course.  Both fine instruments. Regarding changing registration, Hauptwerk enable you to allocate keys outside the normal compass of early instruments, thus, on a single physical keyboard I can press the lowest note on the keyboard: this switches the lower 8' stop on and off; the highest key couples/uncouples the manuals etc.  In this way each stop can be added/removed, including coupling the 2 virtual keyboards together.  Standard practice for Hauptwerk organ/harpsichord users.  Works almost as well/quickly as physically pushing the levers/pulling out stops.

It may be that PT allows for the same control process, but as Hauptwerk works and I prefer the sounds of the instruments above, (plus a few small baroque organs), I have never pursued this in PT.  Horses for courses.  PT for pianos: I love the modern instruments and also play the 1790 Walter and 1849 Erard extensively.  For Bach, Rameau etc, I fire up Hauptwerk.   So I am a very happy user of both systems.

Re: How about some more harpsichord models?

sandalholme wrote:

Regarding changing registration, Hauptwerk enable you to allocate keys outside the normal compass of early instruments, thus, on a single physical keyboard I can press the lowest note on the keyboard: this switches the lower 8' stop on and off; the highest key couples/uncouples the manuals etc.  In this way each stop can be added/removed, including coupling the 2 virtual keyboards together.  Standard practice for Hauptwerk organ/harpsichord users.  Works almost as well/quickly as physically pushing the levers/pulling out stops.

You can do the same within Pianoteq: load for example the Grimaldi harpsichord and make sure you have the extended keyboard mode selected (the minus sign should be visible on the bottom left of the keyboard, else click on the plus sign at the same place) so that you can assign notes that are not in the usual range of the instrument. Then you can MIDI learn the three registers basic combinations, for example:

  • select Grimaldi A 415, press the control key while clicking on the preset name and press the C0 key: Grimaldi A 415 is now assigned to C0,

  • select Grimaldi B 415, press the control key while clicking on the preset name and press the C0# key: Grimaldi B 415 is now assigned to C0#,

  • select Grimaldi A+B 415, press the control key while clicking on the preset name and press the D0 key: Grimaldi A+B 415 is now assigned to D0.

Re: How about some more harpsichord models?

Thanks for that info.  I thought PT would have a way of doing it: it's amazing how many requests for extra faciities are answered by "You can already do that in this way"  It is most remarkable software.

Re: How about some more harpsichord models?

Philippe Guillaume wrote:
Guy Sigsworth wrote:

I’d love Modartt to expand on the harpsichord models. In particular, please can we have all the elements of a full concert harpsichord, e.g. with lower 8’, upper 8’, 4’, and buff stop? [...]

Thank you Guy for your interesting suggestion, we will work on it.

bernybutterfly wrote:

I like the harpsichords in pianoteq, but for playing, i still prefer the Mietke Harsichord in Hauptwerk.
There you can change registers and play 2 manuals.
Without that its not so funny to play baroque-music.

The Grimaldi harpsichord in Pianoteq provides 2 registers A and B, which you can also play together (A+B presets), isn't it what you are asking for?

You can't play 2 different sounds ( A and/or B) at the same time on 2 different manuals/keyboards.
Or didn't I find the function?

Re: How about some more harpsichord models?

That's true - Pianoteq was never a multitimbral instrument. You need to load two instances of Pianoteq for that.

Hard work and guts!

Re: How about some more harpsichord models?

Most importantly, the physical modeling parameters in the harpsichord models should be parameters related to harpsichords, not pianos. Now there are nonsensical parameters such as 'hammer hardness'. It looks as if the harpsichord patches are not derived from harpsichord sounds at all but are simply created using the piano models. I've been told this is not true, and the patches do sound rather natural, but before there are dedicated parameters, one can't really say that pianoteq has harpsichord models. The electric pianos have had dedicated parameters from the start - can we have that for the harpsichords (and bells and so on) as well?

Re: How about some more harpsichord models?

It would be great if you could do this harpsichord.

http://antiquitymusic.com/electric-harpsichord

Re: How about some more harpsichord models?

Well... They could adapt the harpsichords of pianoteq to use the Rhodes electric system (virtual) to module/amplify the vibrations of the harsichord's strings.
I bellieve it's possible...

ChrisM wrote:

It would be great if you could do this harpsichord.

http://antiquitymusic.com/electric-harpsichord

Re: How about some more harpsichord models?

I am a brand new PTQ user, but I will weigh in anyway. I would like to see another clavichord, myself. Although I failed, when purchasing a new controller, to take into account the desirability of polyphonic aftertouch for the bebung effect (anyone have actual experience with that?). Might not have changed my mind, anyway, as that is only one of many considerations.

But this PTQ Neupert clavichord (goodness, the original is a copy by Neupert made in Nazi Germany, for crying out loud!) has a rather sterile sound, IMO. If you listen to recorded clavichords, such as those made by the late Thurston Dart or Bradley Lehman, there is a mellower, "woody" sonority that this instrument somehow lacks. I doubt it's the modeling, either, I suspect it's in the original.

Clavichords are not so very popular, but they have wonderful potential as modeled instruments for playing Bach and, even moreso, Froberger and his contemporaries.

For the present, this one is better than the samples I had from PMI (Gigastudio). Haven't tried the Wavelore clavichord for Kontakt (which is $180 but on sale for $90 till Dec. 15). Anyone know of it?

Amateur Standalone PTQ user; interests classical music, especially Bach and Mozart, and historic keyboards

Re: How about some more harpsichord models?

oldionus wrote:

But this PTQ Neupert clavichord (goodness, the original is a copy by Neupert made in Nazi Germany, for crying out loud!) has a rather sterile sound, IMO. If you listen to recorded clavichords, such as those made by the late Thurston Dart or Bradley Lehman, there is a mellower, "woody" sonority that this instrument somehow lacks. I doubt it's the modeling, either, I suspect it's in the original.

for a "woodier" sound you might try applying a wave impulse reverb effect to the Neupert, such as the free ones available here ==> http://www.samplicity.com/bricasti-m7-i...responses/ (try the 'small wood room" one).  also, mike placement goes a long way toward creating a warmer sound... 

Matthieu 7:6