Topic: pianoteq and ambiophonics

As I said in a previous post, I have always prefered headphones while playing with pianoteq instead of loudspeakers.

I hinted then about "ambiophonics" which is a name given to methods for crosstalk cancellation between speakers, the absence of crosstalk being the main reason why headphones are more realistic.

This post is concerned with people playing at home and not in a live performance on stage. In that case, ambiophonics is really of no use.

The main technique, as explained in detail here :

http://www.ambiophonics.org/Ambiofiles.htm

is to reposition speakers closer together (at a 20 degree angle instead of the usual equilateral triangle) and using DSP to effectively remove the crosstalk in real time.

If you want to be convinced of the effectiveness, you can download from the site some examples pre-processed with the RACE (Recursive Ambiophonic Crosstalk Eliminator) algorithm. This test is easy to do with cheap "computer speakers" that can be easily moved. The resulting widening and "out of speaker" sound even with low-fi equipment may surprise you.

I have used both methods described on the site with the AudioMulch software with some interesting results and some limitations also.

Since AudioMulch can load VST plugins, it is possible to play pianoteq in real-time while also producing crosstalk-cancelled output.

I have loaded an image (pianoteq_audiomulch.jpg) to show the setup.

The interesting part is that there is a real widening of audio image if speakers are properly positioned which I try to demonstrate with an uploaded example.

The files are :

pb_deb.mid - a performance of Debussy's La cathédrale engloutie which I downloaded from Classical Archives.

pb_deb.fxp - the setting which I used to record the first 3 minutes or so of that midi file with pianoteq.

pb_deb_RACE.mp3  the resulting pre-processed file that MUST be listened to with the proper speaker positioning.

The less interesting part is, although the CPU demands are very low (on my setup anyway) there is a slight increase in latency which makes the playing more sluggish.
There is also a gain (volume) loss and subtle changes to the attack of the piano which may be acceptable or not.

The RACE method is less demanding (but a bit less realistic) than the BACCH one (which uses convolution) for real-time playing, but the BACCH technique can be extended to more than 2 speakers (which I have not tried)

In conclusion, this is an interesting experiment with some good and some bad, you be the judge.

This could contain suggestions for improving future versions of pianoteq's speaker output.

Re: pianoteq and ambiophonics

Ooops, I can't upload a jpg, here it is then :

http://picasaweb.google.com/gllsprs/Aud...9164090770

Re: pianoteq and ambiophonics

Yesterday stumbled upon a site about Ambiophonics.
http://ambiophonics.org/
It was interesting to try to Pianoteq. And that impressed! New harpsichord sound struck panorama even though my cheap speakers. Model B showed enveloping bass. Already there have been significant changes in the sound Pianoteq since the beginning of this topic. Unfortunately in my system could not run the AU to this effect and was able to connect via the plug-in runs on JAVA. It came out pretty great delay sound, not allowing to play through the speakers live. Is it possible to expect in the future adding ambiophonics effect to the rest of its current effects? It seems like this project is not commercial, and the way to change the sound can be used freely.
D-dur! ))

Upd.. I run with AudioMulch with little or no delay)

Last edited by scherbakov.al (19-05-2016 20:59)

Re: pianoteq and ambiophonics

@Gilles Neither of your links work.

3/2 = 5

Re: pianoteq and ambiophonics

SteveLy wrote:

@Gilles Neither of your links work.

Well, that was almost 8 years ago, and also picasaweb is being phased out by Google...
The ambiophonics.org site has changed also.

I tried to find the picture in my old picasaweb albums but can't. I must have removed it at some point. Sorry...

The pb_deb* files are still available in the Other files section and the FXP Corner. The fxp is for pianoteq 2 !!! 


EDIT: You're lucky, I found the image in my old XP computer...For those who have never seen Pianoteq 2, here it is in its full glory...

https://sites.google.com/site/ptqspecpr...omulch.jpg

Last edited by Gilles (21-05-2016 14:15)

Re: pianoteq and ambiophonics

scherbakov.al wrote:

It was interesting to try to Pianoteq. And that impressed!

I tried the free VST plugin posted on the Ambiophonics page but could not get it to work for me on Mac OS X (El Capitan). Does the VST work on Windows then? Or did you use some other way to try Ambiophonics with Pianoteq?

Re: pianoteq and ambiophonics

Aidan, the system MAC OS was able to run the VST plug-in + Pianoteq using AudioMulch program.
http://www.audiomulch.com/download
Everything is stable and without delay.

Re: pianoteq and ambiophonics

Quite interesting stuff to read......

Specially because I do just the opposite, using Toneboosters Isone to emulate speaker crosstalk and other phenomena  while using headphones......

In my experience the headphone sound is unnaturally separated L/R.   All depends of course on which material you are listening to.
But I find this approach more realistic than using the Binaural ouput of Pianoteq.

I work with Reaper.

Greetings,

Geert

Re: pianoteq and ambiophonics

With new updates I wanted to resurrect the topic with the exception of cross-talk from the speakers. Pretty interesting..