Topic by delt

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  • delt
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  • From: Montréal, Canada
  • Registered: 11-06-2013
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Topic: Jumping octaves (playing technique)

Hi everyone, this might be slightly off topic to Pianoteq and more related to playing technique, but anyways....

I have trouble jumping my hand by a large-ish interval ie. an octave or so, without looking at the hand that's doing the jump. This causes problems when both hands need to jump a large interval at the same time. I wonder how blind pianists can even play...

So, question for you guys, is this just a question of more practice? What do you suggest i can do to improve this ability?

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Reply by EvilDragon

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Re: Jumping octaves (playing technique)

Yep, it's all about practice, until it builds into your muscle memory. Just like you don't have to look on a keyboard while typing a post on the forum or writing an e-mail after you've used a computer for a longer period of time

Hard work and guts!

Reply by delt

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Re: Jumping octaves (playing technique)

Thanks for your reply (:

...but when i was like 14, i took two or three solid weeks to learn typing properly (and never regretted it)... on the other hand i've been playing piano/keyboards for about 2 years now and i still need to look at my hands to do octave-length jumps also, your hands don't really do that kind of jumping around when typing on a computer keyboard... except maybe to hit a keyboard shortcut or something like that.

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Reply by JerryKnight

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Re: Jumping octaves (playing technique)

Yes, the reduced arm movement in typing means it's simpler to commit patterns to "muscle memory." With the added arm movements and more complex finger movements on the piano/keyboard, it is a much bigger task to completely internalize everything.

I've played piano since I was five years old, with formal lessons until around 23, and I still have to look at big jumps most of the time. Most of the intervals I have down, and I can pound out octaves in my sleep, but any jumps I happen to memorize are within the context of a specific piece.

As far as improving it, you can look for pieces/songs that have features that you find hard and master them, or you can go look for exercises. I can't stand hearing or playing the Hanon exercises, but they might do some good if you can tolerate them. I prefer any of Czerny's exercises (School of Velocity Op. 299, 40 Daily Studies Op. 337, and Art of Finger Dexterity Op. 740 come to mind, but there are lots of them.) Czerny's exercises tend to be more enjoyable and less monotonous than Hanon.

In googling for this, I just came across this page on pianoexercises.org. Looks promising.

You generally don't have to master these exercises to get benefit from them, but if you play through a few in Czerny's Op. 740 and then listen to Francesco Libetta play through them at tempo, it's truly astounding how much work he put into exercises. (He supposedly recorded his album of the whole book in one take!)

Last edited by JerryKnight (13-07-2015 20:36)

Reply by Ecaroh

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Re: Jumping octaves (playing technique)

Few ideas for jumping chords and octaves:

First, try to avoid fixed and stressed hand(s) when they jump. In other words, when you jump off the keys do not keep the chord/octave too long or prepare the next chord/octave too early. Of course at some point you have to prepare the next hit. But idea is to release all unnecessary tension. (Of course this applies to all playing)

second, you might try to first learn the big moves of hands. This means that you don't care that much to get all the right notes from the beginning. When you can easily and without no tension make those big moves then you can little by little start to define those smaller motoric tasks. Key here is to seek for ultimate relaxation while being in control.

third, crouping: repeating small sections. For exampe repeat just 1 and 2 octave/chord. Then 2 and 3, then 4 and 5 etc. Then maybe grouping three units: 1,2 and 3 octaves/chords, then 3,4 and 5 etc.

fourth and obviously, spend lot of time practising hands separately.


P.S. Now when we are in the field of technical playing, I cannot help myself going further:

Does anybody here be familiar with canadian Alan Fraser's ideas about piano technique? This summer I have spent many hours of studying his method. What is he trying to do is to find a method which combines the best parts of Russian Arm Weight School and traditional "Finger Action School". And in backroung there's a strong relation to Feldenkrais -method and little bit of Tai Chi.

Personally I cannot yet say that much about Fraser's power. Is it really good or just another "re-invented wheel"? But for sure there are some very good ideas and perhaps much more...

http://alanfraser.net

Last edited by Ecaroh (14-07-2015 09:48)

Ecaroh's Website

Reply by CC

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Re: Jumping octaves (playing technique)

There are two ways to improve jumping skills.  Both are designed to get you there ahead of time, and to hit the right notes every time. (1) the first is to increase your horizontal hand movement speed from the old to the new positions.  Once you practice that, you will be surprised at how slow you were before. Sit on the piano (or anywhere) and practice increasing the speed of horizontal hand travel along the keyboard. It consists mainly of a rotation of the forearm around the upper arm with a small additional movement of the elbow.  Practice until you notice a significant increase in speed (one week?). Then practice on the piano, stopping right above the intended end location. There is a take-off and the horizontal motion until you get to your destination, then straight down to play. (2) feel the final destination keys before playing them.  In the beginning, practice these individual movements slowly (except for the rapid horizontal motion), getting each exactly right. Now combine all motions into one smooth motion.  With practice, you will be surprised at how quickly you can feel the keys and play them -- in the blink of an eye.  Of course, there are passages that are too fast for you to feel the keys, but once you learn the jump method feeling the keys, you will improve so much that you will be able to skip that step and still do well.  Feeling the keys simply guarantees 100% accuracy. Then develop the habit of always "getting there" ahead of time, regardless of the required speed of the jump.