Topic: Building or Rebuilding?

To what extent can I build a piano in pianoteq?
Can I take the D4 and build a U4 out of it?

On velocity. The sampled piano's say so many velocity layers. Aren't there many more layers available in pianoteq?
Is the only limiting factor the 127 values given by the controller?

Pianoteq keeps sounding better. I am sure it has to do with larger/faster computers? You building pianoteq to run larger/faster? Still there isn't much load on my new computer. Have you thought about building it much faster/larger to make it sound better? Computers in general these days can handle it.

Re: Building or Rebuilding?

Also.... pianoteq is definitely more connected to the player than sampled piano's. It isn't a factor of latency. What is it?

Re: Building or Rebuilding?

You're right about the velocity layers, there are none in Pianoteq (other than the midi standard's 127 possible values). A sampled piano simply uses pre-recorded notes at different velocities, and plays back the corresponding recording (sample) for each note you play.

Pianoteq only uses samples for things like keyboard mechanic noises and the such, where modeling them would make absolutely no difference. It calculates all other aspects of the sound in real-time mathematically form a huge set of parameters, many of which you can tweak with the interface. It took years for this approach to become viable, but in my personal opinion, version 4 is when it started to be actually viable for a believable piano sound. It offers a lot more control over the sound than samples, you can control elements that a sampled piano would need entire different sets of samples.

For example, if you want to have a realistic sound of the same piano with lid open or closed, you'd need samples of the piano with the lid open, and an entire other set with the lid closed (or fake the effect with some lowpass/eq) - at minimum. With pianoteq, there are tons of parameters, like the length of the piano, the hardness of the soundboard, hardness of the hammers, etc etc. that you can change on the fly, and the notes that are playing at that exact moment will continue resonating with the new sound.

Another thing, very important in the "connected" feel you mentioned, is that pianoteq doesn't render single notes, it renders the piano sound as a whole. This lets it much more realistically do things like for example sympathetic resonance (strings resonating from other notes), duplex scale (the part of the strings outside the "nominal length") and so on.

The Modartt team has worked very hard on this product, and they stand behind it. In my experience their customer support has been beyond excellent so far.

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Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
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Re: Building or Rebuilding?

Capaton wrote:

To what extent can I build a piano in pianoteq?
Can I take the D4 and build a U4 out of it?

Nope.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Building or Rebuilding?

Capaton wrote:

To what extent can I build a piano in pianoteq?
Can I take the D4 and build a U4 out of it?

On velocity. The sampled piano's say so many velocity layers. Aren't there many more layers available in pianoteq?
Is the only limiting factor the 127 values given by the controller?

Pianoteq keeps sounding better. I am sure it has to do with larger/faster computers? You building pianoteq to run larger/faster? Still there isn't much load on my new computer. Have you thought about building it much faster/larger to make it sound better? Computers in general these days can handle it.

We have been told such things as each "piano" is based on a different model.
As I understand it (perhaps poorly) we can change some of the parameters that AFFECT the model, but not the model itself.  The Pro version allows changing more parameters, but again these are only parameters that AFFECT the model, they are not parameters OF the model.

This probably devolves to semantics... I'll leave it here, but the answer to your question is that you (I, we the users) can't change the things that are inherently different between a U4 and a D4.

What those are and where they are within the code... again, it may be a choice of terms, i.e. if you change all the code and all the data, sure a U4 could become a D4, or anything else
Point is we don't have the source code so we can't change the BIG things.

Re: Building or Rebuilding?

A major thing that changes from one instrument to another is the partial structure of each note--the amplitude and pitch of each partial that is excited when the strings are struck by the hammer. The pro version does allow one to change the amplitude of each partial, but not the exact freqs of each partial. You can of course make adjustments that dampen some partials (by changing the strike point) and reduce or increase the inharmonicity on a set of strings (by increasing or decreasing the string length), and changing the pitch of a string will change the extent to which some partials are audible when two notes are played together, but the relative pitch of each partial cannot be set independently--changing the pitch of the note of course changes all of  thee partials at once--and that is one of the major contributors to the overall sound of an instrument. On the other hand, these other edits make it possible to get very different sounds from a given instrument.

Last edited by Jake Johnson (09-06-2015 05:36)