Topic: Why spectrum profile values are relative?

I try to mimic my piano using spectrum profile editor (in Standard version). With Audacity I make fourier analysis of my piano's single note and take values of all overtones (relative to first overtone). But I can't just enter these values to Pianoteq because (as I understand) for each preset spectrum profile shown in relative values, so values of all overtones is 0 dB. So, to properly enter overtone values of my piano I need record Pianoteq's single note (for a given preset), then with Audacity make fourier analysis, take Pianoteq's overtones values and then adjust my overtones values.

For example, if second overtone of my piano for note A4# has intensity -9.7 dB, but "D4 Classical AB" has -22.8 dB, to mimic my piano I should set second overtone to +13.1 dB for "D4 Classical AB" preset. The same procedure for each overtone.

It's too tediously to make this adjustment instead of just enter my absolute intensities of overtones (relative to first overtone, of course).

Why spectrum profile in Pianoteq doesn't use absolute values of overtones? I need make fourier analysis of Pianoteq's output to see real intensities of evertones instead of just see it in the Pianoteq's editor.

This post can be considered as feature request for checkbox "Show absolute values of overtones" in the settings. Similar checkboxes would be useful for some other pianoteq's parameters that shown in the editor in relative values.

Last edited by Ross (28-12-2014 17:24)
Combine velocity curves: http://output.jsbin.com/cukeme/9

Re: Why spectrum profile values are relative?

Maybe you could use the specialized software I wrote to automate this task instead of Audacity:
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=1634

You seem to be aware of it.

With the automatic method, the whole keyboard can be modified by copy/paste in about 30 minutes, and then each note further adjusted with the scaling function in Note Edit if needed.

Also you have to take into account that the spectrum is dynamic, changing all the time, so what can be done is only specifying relative changes to the overtones as set in the model. There is no fixed value in dB.


EDIT: Rereading your post, I see you use Standard version...so that explains your use of Audacity. My method is for the Pro version in Note Edit. You can't really do comparisons using only the 8 sliders in the GUI. A modified value there is applied to all notes, not only the one you analyze.

Last edited by Gilles (28-12-2014 23:08)

Re: Why spectrum profile values are relative?

Gilles, yes I use Standard version, Pro is to expensive and there is no trial. I know that spectrum profile varies from note to note, but I hope that in general all notes have similar profiles. And the same thing for dynamics. Am I right?

The good thing of Standard version is that it can load fxp from Pro without limiting. Gilles, does your tool can output fxp file?

Last edited by Ross (29-12-2014 14:46)
Combine velocity curves: http://output.jsbin.com/cukeme/9

Re: Why spectrum profile values are relative?

I understand the cost problem, especially if it's the only thing you need it for and want to do it only once...

PtqSpecProf works in conjunction with the Pro version and generates for all harmonics of each note the difference string to be pasted from the clipboard into the Note Edit pane, and, at the end the fxp is saved, but the Pro version is needed all along to do this.

I have posted in the past some examples in the FXP Corner such as this one:

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.php?id=1642

While it's not a perfect emulation (of course! that's impossible) comparing the fxp with the original Bluethner preset shows the timbre has been drawn more toward the sound of the Bösendorfer samples I started with.

If you use a dynamic spectrum analyser like this one: http://www.voxengo.com/product/span/ you will see that the relative amplitude of each overtone varies a lot with time and differently for each note! This is the complexity of the piano sound, and the only thing that my software can attain is a snaphot at a fixed velocity.

Comparing compatible fixed spectra works partially since the model makes them vary with time in its own way, but it does change the timbre in a meaningful way. The pasted spectra differences vary wildly from note to note. This was a surprise to me when I first saw the result...But consecutive notes vary smoothly in timbre despite that.

It's possible to do interesting global changes with only the 8 sliders in the GUI (Rachel Jimenez produced some great D4 presets this way) but it's mostly done by ear and in conjunction with other parameters. If you want to try using Audacity for comparison with a favorite note from your goal piano it's only 8 substractions to do by hand! Not such a big deal. But don't expect too much this way...

Last edited by Gilles (29-12-2014 15:25)

Re: Why spectrum profile values are relative?

Thanks.

Combine velocity curves: http://output.jsbin.com/cukeme/9

Re: Why spectrum profile values are relative?

I'm of the opinion that whatever sound reinforcement combination you are using will greatly affect the final sound.  Most speakes seem to have dead spots. Obviously two 10" speakers would be different from a pair of 15".

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Why spectrum profile values are relative?

GRB wrote:

I'm of the opinion that whatever sound reinforcement combination you are using will greatly affect the final sound.  Most speakes seem to have dead spots. Obviously two 10" speakers would be different from a pair of 15".

??? Wrong thread?