Do you tune your own acoustic piano? What about hammer voicing?

A real acoustic piano, besides hammer hardness, also can be adjusted by needling, changing the shape of the hammers.

In this photo a deformed hammer head was reshaped to a original (close) shape again.

This can be used not only to restore shape but also to alter shape even in brand new hammers.

I once suggested Modartt do include a needling adjust for pianoteq, and hammer weight, but they felt it would make the software too much complex for the consumers.

Beto-Music wrote:

A real acoustic piano, besides hammer hardness, also can be adjusted by needling, changing the shape of the hammers.

In this photo a deformed hammer head was reshaped to a original (close) shape again.

This can be used not only to restore shape but also to alter shape even in brand new hammers.

I once suggested Modartt do include a needling adjust for pianoteq, and hammer weight, but they felt it would make the software too much complex for the consumers.

Well they could add a slider for hammer hardness.  I imagine they use the velocity curve to achieve much the same effect.  In the case of my acoustic the bass and mid range hammers have gotten too hard, but the high treble is fine as it is.  Your picture of the reshaped hammer is amazing, almost unbelievable.

Beto-Music wrote:

Anyway could be fun, for the purpose of create new and different sounds, to have the chance of alter the hammer's head in new ways. The trebble [sic] used smaller (pointed) and light weight hammer. How it would sound with heavier and larger hammer, like the ones. from midle [sic] range or bass?  Just guessing..

One reason that lighter hammers are used for treble strings is because all hammers need to have bounced "off" the string -- before -- the transient (longitudinal) wave has had time to reflect off the hitch pin and return to the capo bar.  More massive hammers require a longer time to rebound from the string; if the more massive hammer felt is still in contact with the string as the initial transient wave reflects back, the result is "cancellation" of the sound.  Higher pitched strings are so short in length that heavier hammers there would muffle the sound.

The old adage that "if a little more is good, then a lot more should be better" ... does not hold true in the case of hammer mass interacting with piano strings.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject.

Cheers,

Joe

jcfelice88keys wrote:

Beto-Music wrote:

Anyway could be fun, for the purpose of create new and different sounds, to have the chance of alter the hammer's head in new ways. The trebble [sic] used smaller (pointed) and light weight hammer. How it would sound with heavier and larger hammer, like the ones. from midle [sic] range or bass?  Just guessing..

One reason that lighter hammers are used for treble strings is because all hammers need to have bounced "off" the string -- before -- the transient (longitudinal) wave has had time to reflect off the hitch pin and return to the capo bar.  More massive hammers require a longer time to rebound from the string; if the more massive hammer felt is still in contact with the string as the initial transient wave reflects back, the result is "cancellation" of the sound.  Higher pitched strings are so short in length that heavier hammers there would muffle the sound.

The old adage that "if a little more is good, then a lot more should be better" ... does not hold true in the case of hammer mass interacting with piano strings.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject.

Cheers,

Joe

Heavy hammers would be just like a heavy bicycle.  It would take more effort to move them.  To the best of my knowledge, no one actually adjusts hammer weight other than the original maker of the hammers.  I believe they may be cut from a long block on which the felt has been tapered.  Anyway, hammer hardness affects tone.  Hard hammers make the tone more bright while softer hammers make the tone softer.  If the hammers are too soft the tone becomes mushy.  In the upper treble the tone will lack clarity and brilliance.  Too hard a hammer in the bass creates distortion in the attack, and a somewhat unpleasant sound.  I prefer to play on a piano with softer hammers as the the tone is generally easier to control.  It's has been my experience that a lot of Asian manufactured uprights have really nasty overly hard hammers that create a very unpleasant sound.

The issue I have with my Casio PX-150 is that I prefer the tone selection called "mellow." It's generally very pleasant and seductive; however this setting  or voice lacks brilliance in the upper register, and I wish it was possible to adjust the taper of the brilliance.  As mentioned by other forum posters, this can be set on an acoustic, by needling the hammers.  It's a tedious process which requires care and a significant amount of time.  Presumably the Pianoteq Pro has some form of brilliance adjustment that can be tapered across the full rage of the keyboard.  I have come to believe that while we all would like a digital instrument that has the tonal quality and dynamic response of an acoustic, it has been illusive.  However in the not too distant future I think relatively low priced light weight portable electronic pianos will exceed the performance capabilities of the exclusively mechanical pianos of the past.

Jake Johnson wrote:

The Pro version lets the user adjust the hammer hardness note by note at three ranges of velocity. In other words, you can control the degree to which the felt is compressed with a change in force. Of course, these parameters have to be adjusted with the velocity curve in mind.

I, for one, would like to be able to change the hammer mass in Pianoteq. Since it is a factor in the sound, it makes sense that the user could control it, even if changing it might lead to mistakes. But I've said this before...

Too me hammer mass would only affect how an acoustic piano feels.  It's somewhat similar to key mass and perhaps why people like the Kawai controller with long wooden keys.  I really don't see how it would effect tone much.  All I know is that in an acoustic piano the hammers get progressively larger as they approach the bass.  Wouldn't an increase in velocity effectively increase mass so to speak?  Certain baseball players can hit the ball further using the same bat and ball as another player.  I can't really see hammer mass as an adjustment parameter on a digital piano.  A more important aspect is scaling which is related to the radius or thickness of the string in relation to it's length.  I doubt Pianoteq has a string scaling parameter, but who knows?  If they do, presumably it would introduce electronically more or less inharmonicity.

GRB wrote:

Jake Johnson wrote:

The Pro version lets the user adjust the hammer hardness note by note at three ranges of velocity. In other words, you can control the degree to which the felt is compressed with a change in force. Of course, these parameters have to be adjusted with the velocity curve in mind.

I, for one, would like to be able to change the hammer mass in Pianoteq. Since it is a factor in the sound, it makes sense that the user could control it, even if changing it might lead to mistakes. But I've said this before...

Too me hammer mass would only affect how an acoustic piano feels.  It's somewhat similar to key mass and perhaps why people like the Kawai controller with long wooden keys.  I really don't see how it would effect tone much.  All I know is that in an acoustic piano the hammers get progressively larger as they approach the bass.  Wouldn't an increase in velocity effectively increase mass so to speak?  Certain baseball players can hit the ball further using the same bat and ball as another player.  I can't really see hammer mass as an adjustment parameter on a digital piano.  A more important aspect is scaling which is related to the radius or thickness of the string in relation to it's length.  I doubt Pianoteq has a string scaling parameter, but who knows?  If they do, presumably it would introduce electronically more or less inharmonicity.

Well, since Force = Mass x Acceleration, increasing the hammer mass would mean increasing the force delivered to the string, bridge, and soundboard. A soft strike would have more audible upper partials. However, increasing the mass would also increase its inertia. On a real piano, if the player could control the hammer mass, there would be more control over the exact touch. I'm not sure, however, how things would play out on a MIDI keyboard. I'm not sure if MIDI can tell the difference between a high velocity strike with a low mass hammer and a low velocity strike with a high mass hammer.

There is no string-scaling parameter in the pro version, but that has been requested. The ability to control the string composition would be great, too. The string length, however, can be controlled.