Topic by TX-Bluebonnet

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Topic: Stage demo - sound & calibration issues

Hi, I'm trying out the stage demo version to use with my Casio PX850. I really like the U4 sounds. Anyway, I'm stuck on a couple of things, hoping someone can help me out.

1) I  downloaded the ASIO driver and got the the Pianoteq sound to output through my PC's external speakers.  However, to hear the piano playing at a normal level I have to turn the internal sound mixer and external speaker volumes up to max levels. Then when I close out Pianoteq and go to listen to Netflix, YouTube video, etc, it's of course WAY TOO LOUD. What would be the best approach to fix this disparity in sound levels?

2) I can't seem to calibrate my keyboard. I click on calibration, start, then follows step 1/5 to press a key softly at which point I the virtual key depresses and a vertical line shows up momentarily in the velocity box. Then... nothing. How do I make it go to step 2/5?

Reply by kalessin

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Re: Stage demo - sound & calibration issues

TX-Bluebonnet wrote:

1) I  downloaded the ASIO driver and got the the Pianoteq sound to output through my PC's external speakers.  However, to hear the piano playing at a normal level I have to turn the internal sound mixer and external speaker volumes up to max levels. Then when I close out Pianoteq and go to listen to Netflix, YouTube video, etc, it's of course WAY TOO LOUD. What would be the best approach to fix this disparity in sound levels?

This seems to be an effect some built-in sound devices show. ASIO uses kernel streaming, and this bypasses the software mixer. It seems like on those sound cards the software mixer is used to 'correct' a too-low audio level, which of course doesn't work when using ASIO. Perhaps it will work when using a DAW that can use WASAPI in device-exclusive mode (e.g., Sonar X3); however, I doubt it. You will probably have more luck with a decent external audio interface.

2) I can't seem to calibrate my keyboard. I click on calibration, start, then follows step 1/5 to press a key softly at which point I the virtual key depresses and a vertical line shows up momentarily in the velocity box. Then... nothing. How do I make it go to step 2/5?

What does the screen say? Isn't there a button to continue? Sorry, but it has been a long time that I had to calibrate (and I'm not at home right now).

Last edited by kalessin (03-11-2014 09:33)
Pianoteq 6 Standard (Steinway D&B, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Blüthner, K2, YC5, U4, Kremsegg 1&2, Karsten, Electric, Hohner)

Reply by Beemer

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Re: Stage demo - sound & calibration issues

What is the volume when you use the Pianoteq keyboard?  Note that the volume changes depending on how far your mouse touches the key from its front.

Ian

Reply by TX-Bluebonnet

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Re: Stage demo - sound & calibration issues

kalessin wrote:

You will probably have more luck with a decent external audio interface.

OK, I'm not sure all of your response, but I had a feeling it might come down to this. Thank you, I'll look into getting one.

kalessin wrote:

What does the screen say? Isn't there a button to continue? Sorry, but it has been a long time that I had to calibrate (and I'm not at home right now).

No, there's no button to continue. Any chance there's a screenshot somewhere where I can see what it should look like after pressing the note and ready for the next step?

Reply by TX-Bluebonnet

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Re: Stage demo - sound & calibration issues

Beemer wrote:

What is the volume when you use the Pianoteq keyboard?  Note that the volume changes depending on how far your mouse touches the key from its front.Ian

The Pianoteq keyboard is quite loud. My Casio keyboard is not loud enough, even with sound level at 100% and external speaker knob turned up all the way. Does that sound like a sound card problem to you, too?

Reply by Beemer

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Re: Stage demo - sound & calibration issues

Download this tiny program:

http://www.midiox.com/

It will allow you to check the midi signal level when you play a note from your Casio

The zero to maximum volume range is 0 to 127

Ian

Reply by TX-Bluebonnet

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Re: Stage demo - sound & calibration issues

Beemer wrote:

Download this tiny program:

http://www.midiox.com/

It will allow you to check the midi signal level when you play a note from your Casio

The zero to maximum volume range is 0 to 127

Ian

Okay, I downloaded the program. I'm able to produce volumes in the full range from 0 to 127 (definitely into the upper 120's with 127 once, by hitting the key really hard, which I only did a few times since I don't want to break anything).

What does that tell me? Something good I hope.

Reply by cpcohen

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Re: Stage demo - sound & calibration issues

I'm using my own computer's soundcard, and not having your problems.  So let's see what could be happening:

1.  In Pianoteq's main window, there's a "Volume" slider.

. . . What is it set to?

2.  Are you trying to route Pianoteq (that is, the computer's soundcard output) through the PX-850's loudspeakers?

If so, you're probably feeding it into a "Line In" jack (or jacks).  The volume produced by a signal on that jack(s) may be affected by the PX-850's own "VOLUME" control:

. . . What volume is the PX-850 set to?

3.  If you plug headphones into the computer's soundcard, does the output sound reasonably loud?  It should be similar, using Pianoteq and the ASIO driver, and listening to (e.g.) Youtube with standard soundcard drivers.

.          Charles (also on the "PianoWorld" forum)

Reply by Beemer

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Re: Stage demo - sound & calibration issues

Charles gave you some excellent checks.   One more I add which is are you certain that the Windows mixer is showing ALL the playback sliders?   Click on the little icon at the top of each and then look at the "levels" and "advanced" pages of every slider.  Make sure that the volume of all is at 100%

From your midi test your keyboard output volume is okay.

Ian

Reply by TX-Bluebonnet

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Re: Stage demo - sound & calibration issues

Hi Charles and Ian,

1) I didn't even notice this slider. It was set to the default zero. I moved it up to 7 and that helped. But does increasing this volume distort the sound at all?

2) No, just trying to output through my expternal computer speakers. As far as I know there isn't an audio in on the PX850, just 2 audio outs for dual headphone listening. Right now I have the keyboard connected to the computer via the midi/usb cable, and the local volume toggled off, so the volume control on the PX850 is out of the picture at this point... correct? I admit I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing.

3) I'd say it's similar, but it's so hard to compare because only one or the other can be on at one time. For example, if I have Pianoteq running then I can't hear sounds from anything else. When I close out Pianoteq then I have to reload pages and/or browsers in order to reactivate the sound in Youtube, etc. During all this checking I don't know what happened but I can no longer hear Netflix on Firefox, though Youtube seems ok. I can hear sound from Netflix on Internet Explorer, though it's at a lower volume. Kinda frustrating.

SO in the meantime, I unplugged the speakers I was originally trying and replaced them with an older pair I had hanging around. Both are cheap speakers, but these older ones work better with a louder sound. I believe I have the sound more or less balanced out now to where I can listen to stuff on the internet or play the piano without such a huge disparity in volumes as I started out with. However, something is still not right because I still have issues with internet sounds after closing out Pianoteq.

As for "all the playback sliders", I'm not sure because I don't understand my sound card setup. In my playback device list I have 2 "ready" and a 3rd as default device, as follows:

Acer H236HL-4: NVIDIA High Definition Audio (Ready w/volume all the way up)
Realtek Digital Output: Realtek High Definition Audio (Ready w/volume all the way up)
Speakers: Realtek High Defnintion Audio (Default Device w/volume part way up or else too loud)

Pianoteq devices set as follows:
Active MIDI inputs: Casio USB-MIDI
Audio device type: ASIO
Device: ASIO4ALL v2 (There's a test button next to this, but nothing happens when I press it.)
Active output channels: HD audio output 1 selected (all the others unchecked)
Sample rate: 44100 Hz
Audio buffer size: 512 samples (11.6 ms)

Thanks a bunch for continuing to help with this.

Reply by cpcohen

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Re: Stage demo - sound & calibration issues

TX-Bluebonnet wrote:

1) I didn't even notice this slider. It was set to the default zero. I moved it up to 7 and that helped. But does increasing this volume distort the sound at all?

2) No, just trying to output through my expternal computer speakers. As far as I know there isn't an audio in on the PX850, just 2 audio outs for dual headphone listening. Right now I have the keyboard connected to the computer via the midi/usb cable, and the local volume toggled off, so the volume control on the PX850 is out of the picture at this point... correct? I admit I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing.

3) I'd say it's similar, but it's so hard to compare because only one or the other can be on at one time. For example, if I have Pianoteq running then I can't hear sounds from anything else. When I close out Pianoteq then I have to reload pages and/or browsers in order to reactivate the sound in Youtube, etc. During all this checking I don't know what happened but I can no longer hear Netflix on Firefox, though Youtube seems ok. I can hear sound from Netflix on Internet Explorer, though it's at a lower volume. Kinda frustrating.

. . .
As for "all the playback sliders", I'm not sure because I don't understand my sound card setup. In my playback device list I have 2 "ready" and a 3rd as default device, as follows:

Acer H236HL-4: NVIDIA High Definition Audio (Ready w/volume all the way up)
Realtek Digital Output: Realtek High Definition Audio (Ready w/volume all the way up)
Speakers: Realtek High Defnintion Audio (Default Device w/volume part way up or else too loud)

Pianoteq devices set as follows:
Active MIDI inputs: Casio USB-MIDI
Audio device type: ASIO
Device: ASIO4ALL v2 (There's a test button next to this, but nothing happens when I press it.)
Active output channels: HD audio output 1 selected (all the others unchecked)
Sample rate: 44100 Hz
Audio buffer size: 512 samples (11.6 ms)
. . .

1.  Watch the volume level on the bar just above that"volume" slider.  If it "goes into the red" when you're playing, you're over-driving the soundcard, and the sound _will_ distort.  [If I have mine at +7 dB, it _does_ distort with reasonably heavy playing.]

2.  I think you're right about this.

3.  You are in the Twilight Zone, here.  It seems that Pianoteq (or the ASIO4ALL driver) is "forgetting" to reset some parameters to their pre-Pianoteq values. 

One way to work around this is to get a second soundcard, and use it for Pianoteq (and _only_ Pianoteq).  That's not hard to do, and you can get USB-driven soundcards for anywhere from $5 up (and up, and up . . .).  The name for a fancy soundcard is "external audio interface".

If you want to go that route, we can suggest some reasonably-priced alternatives.

4.  The Pianoteq settings all look OK.  I'm not able to say much about the rest -- too much difference computer-to-computer, and operating system-to-operating system.

If _I_ press the ASIO4ALL "test" button (that's in Pianoteq's "Audio/MIDI Setup" window), I get a loud single tone in my headphones. 

. . . So something is peculiar about your setup.

This is the ultimate refuge for things we don't understand:

. . . Try re-loading the ASIO4ALL driver.

It sounds like things are getting better, but aren't "good" yet.

.     Charles

PS -- now I have to get back to memorizing lyrics in 7 languages for a Christmas choral concert.  Yuck!