Topic by jjlatval

  • Avatar
  • jjlatval
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 28-08-2014
  • Posts: 3

Topic: SOLVED: Problems with half-pedaling & a question

Hello,

I'm trying the demo version of Pianoteq and I'm currently in the middle of the process of deciding whether or not to buy it. I have two questions before I make my decision.

I'm using a Kawai MP-10 (it has a fantastic keyboard) and I have problems with half-pedaling. As I take a look at the midi commands received by the software, the pedal seems to give these commands properly from 0 to 127. However, as I'm applying only little sustain (approx 1/4-1/3 way down), the pedal noise keeps turning on and off rapidly at the maximum velocity. In this range the piano pedal picture in the software also blinks rapidly between up and "slightly down." I think the software interprets the situation as me rapidly pressing the pedal up and down. I also tried to modify the pedal curve and I only managed to get in a situation where the pedal noise disappears completely. This doesn't happen with the internal piano sounds of the Kawai though. I also checked the MIDI out settings. I'm btw using the native Kawai pedal which has a soft pedal (binary, with only 'up' and 'down') and a sustain pedal that enables half-pedaling. I'm also using an usb cable to connect my Kawai to my Macbook Pro Retina (the i7 of which runs Pianoteq amazingly well).

Secondly, I ran the software through my studio monitors (Genelecs with a subwoofer of the same brand) and I think the pianos with their initial settings lack something in the bass area. Does a real Blüthner or a Steinway D really have this little bass? It's been a few years since I played a real Steinway D Grand for the last time in a piano competition and I think the sound it produced was MASSIVE. I'm sure this can be 'fixed' with appropriate settings. Otherwise the sound and the responsiveness is amazing. Does anyone else feel this way?

EDIT: Dissembling and cleaning the pedal unit did the trick, there was just some dust messing with the sensor detecting pedal position!

- Joni

Last edited by jjlatval (16-09-2014 14:19)

Reply by custral

  • Avatar
  • custral
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-08-2010
  • Posts: 288

Re: SOLVED: Problems with half-pedaling & a question

Kawai MP10 Blurb at start of 3rd para informs you your action is 3-sensor, and that's ALL for what it SHOULD say. The basic fact about 2-sensor is retriggering for the next note from the key involved requires it first to return to undepressed position, slowing repetition. The big win here with 3-sensor tech is it will allow retriggering without the full return, so a repeat stroke can be begun sooner. This is graphed very completely for you at the equivalent point of the Blurb for Kawai VPC10. Look it up.

As for the Pedal noise, if what you are getting is truly due to some bug, it can be dismissed part or whole by left slider moves of the Pedal Noise slider (accessed via the EFFECTS button, bottom right). That removes the immediate annoyance, from whatever source.

The bass in both D4 and Bluthner was formerly boomy (with Bluthner less remarkable). Version 5's bass has more wire, with lots of relief from the big bad Boom. Bluthner is again less remarkable basswise. Try Equalising, see if it fixes the gripe, some. A deficiency with this approach is it will apply en bloc to all notes, WITH overtones merely as they're affected by the fixed slider setting. True Acoustic behaviour instead, with overtones affected only by their own (or a Sympathetic) fundamental, will need buying the Pro version, with its Note-by-note adjustments.

Last edited by custral (28-08-2014 20:51)

Reply by delt

  • Avatar
  • delt
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Montréal, Canada
  • Registered: 11-06-2013
  • Posts: 401

Re: SOLVED: Problems with half-pedaling & a question

About the sustain pedal, not sure what might be causing it, it's working fine here (running on linux, sustain pedal is a dp-10 connected to the expression port of my m-audio oxygen88)

Does the drawing of the pedal "animate" slowly on the screen when you press/release the (physical) pedal slowly? ie. you can click & drag the drawing of the sustain pedal to any state, it will show several frames of animation, not just "up" and "down" - if you hold the pedal at the middle position with your foot, you should see the pedal at the middle position on screen.

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Reply by jjlatval

  • Avatar
  • jjlatval
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 28-08-2014
  • Posts: 3

Re: SOLVED: Problems with half-pedaling & a question

Yes, i can see the pedal on the screen move, and it works really well from 1/3 down to full down. However, when I press the pedal from 0 to 1/3 down it keeps flickering from up (or 0) to 1/3 down and it rapidly produces the pedal noise sound. I usually don't do pedaling between 0 and 1/3 down but this fast repeating pedal noise occurs also if I press the sustain pedal down slowly (because the pedal spends some time in the 0 => 1/3 region). Can I adjust the midi parameters for the onset and offset of the pedal noise somewhere?. I can obviously solve this by disabling the pedal noise sound but it'd be nice to have it fully functioning.

- Joni

Reply by rookie

  • Avatar
  • rookie
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 27-07-2014
  • Posts: 19

Re: SOLVED: Problems with half-pedaling & a question

Would you say that this is the same as the issue I described here:

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=3457

cheers

rookie


jjlatval wrote:

Hello,

I'm trying the demo version of Pianoteq and I'm currently in the middle of the process of deciding whether or not to buy it. I have two questions before I make my decision.

I'm using a Kawai MP-10 (it has a fantastic keyboard) and I have problems with half-pedaling. As I take a look at the midi commands received by the software, the pedal seems to give these commands properly from 0 to 127. However, as I'm applying only little sustain (approx 1/4-1/3 way down), the pedal noise keeps turning on and off rapidly at the maximum velocity. In this range the piano pedal picture in the software also blinks rapidly between up and "slightly down." I think the software interprets the situation as me rapidly pressing the pedal up and down. I also tried to modify the pedal curve and I only managed to get in a situation where the pedal noise disappears completely. This doesn't happen with the internal piano sounds of the Kawai though. I also checked the MIDI out settings. I'm btw using the native Kawai pedal which has a soft pedal (binary, with only 'up' and 'down') and a sustain pedal that enables half-pedaling. I'm also using an usb cable to connect my Kawai to my Macbook Pro Retina (the i7 of which runs Pianoteq amazingly well).

Secondly, I ran the software through my studio monitors (Genelecs with a subwoofer of the same brand) and I think the pianos with their initial settings lack something in the bass area. Does a real Blüthner or a Steinway D really have this little bass? It's been a few years since I played a real Steinway D Grand for the last time in a piano competition and I think the sound it produced was MASSIVE. I'm sure this can be 'fixed' with appropriate settings. Otherwise the sound and the responsiveness is amazing. Does anyone else feel this way?

- Joni

Reply by kalessin

  • Avatar
  • kalessin
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 06-12-2013
  • Posts: 306

Re: SOLVED: Problems with half-pedaling & a question

jjlatval wrote:

I'm using a Kawai MP-10 (it has a fantastic keyboard) and I have problems with half-pedaling. As I take a look at the midi commands received by the software, the pedal seems to give these commands properly from 0 to 127.

It does not seem to work 'properly' I'm afraid, at least when I take into account your further description:

However, as I'm applying only little sustain (approx 1/4-1/3 way down), the pedal noise keeps turning on and off rapidly at the maximum velocity. In this range the piano pedal picture in the software also blinks rapidly between up and "slightly down." I think the software interprets the situation as me rapidly pressing the pedal up and down.

This sounds like a noisy sensor. Switch the velocity window of Pianoteq to the pedal curve, and you will probably see the vertical line jumping all over the place when you press the pedal, at least in the first third. You can try resetting the curve to the standard line and then move the lower-left point further to the right, e.g. to (30, 0). This effectively instructs Pianoteq to ignore the first third of the way when you press the pedal. I would consider it a stop-gap measure. You should get the pedal checked, probably there's a potentiometer inside that needs to be cleaned.

Last edited by kalessin (30-08-2014 12:28)
Pianoteq 6 Standard (Steinway D&B, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Blüthner, K2, YC5, U4, Kremsegg 1&2, Karsten, Electric, Hohner)

Reply by jjlatval

  • Avatar
  • jjlatval
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 28-08-2014
  • Posts: 3

Re: SOLVED: Problems with half-pedaling & a question

kalessin wrote:
jjlatval wrote:

I'm using a Kawai MP-10 (it has a fantastic keyboard) and I have problems with half-pedaling. As I take a look at the midi commands received by the software, the pedal seems to give these commands properly from 0 to 127.

It does not seem to work 'properly' I'm afraid, at least when I take into account your further description:

However, as I'm applying only little sustain (approx 1/4-1/3 way down), the pedal noise keeps turning on and off rapidly at the maximum velocity. In this range the piano pedal picture in the software also blinks rapidly between up and "slightly down." I think the software interprets the situation as me rapidly pressing the pedal up and down.

This sounds like a noisy sensor. Switch the velocity window of Pianoteq to the pedal curve, and you will probably see the vertical line jumping all over the place when you press the pedal, at least in the first third. You can try resetting the curve to the standard line and then move the lower-left point further to the right, e.g. to (30, 0). This effectively instructs Pianoteq to ignore the first third of the way when you press the pedal. I would consider it a stop-gap measure. You should get the pedal checked, probably there's a potentiometer inside that needs to be cleaned.

Hello there,

I dissembled the pedal unit and cleaned up the dust there. It worked like magic, and the pedal now sends signals properly! So there was only just some dust messing up with the potentiometer!

Thank you for your responses!

- Joni