Topic: Sennheiser HD 598

Hi, I just bouhgt the headphones Sennheiser HD 598 with the aim to improve my pleasure playing through Pianoteq (5.0.1).

My configuration is as follows:
- iMac Late 2009, 12GB RAM, SSD 250GB
- OSX Mavericks 10.9.3
- Pianoteq 5.0.1
- Bose Companion 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQLUvekJbuI)


I connect my new HD 598 directly to the jack present in front of one of the Bose Companion 2.

I'm a little disappointed about the low volume I hear with the headphones also raising up the volume in Pianoteq and on iMac (the volume on the Bose Companion 2 is quite at high possible value).

What am I doing wrong ? The sound with these headphones is quite more beautiful than with my previous headphones but I'm struggling with the output volume.

Also, but I guess this is a different story, I'm finding quite difficult to play low/high on my piano, does this have to do with velocity curve or whatever ?

Thanks, Roberto

Pianoteq Stage 5.0.1/20140527 - Pianodisc Quiettime Magic Star V. 4.0S - iMac Late 2009 - OSX Mavericks 10.9.3 - 12GB RAM - Intel Core 2 Duo 3.06 GHz - SSD OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 240GB

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

What impendance are the headphones? If it's a high impendance, you might need a headphone amplifier.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

the impedance is 50 ohms

Pianoteq Stage 5.0.1/20140527 - Pianodisc Quiettime Magic Star V. 4.0S - iMac Late 2009 - OSX Mavericks 10.9.3 - 12GB RAM - Intel Core 2 Duo 3.06 GHz - SSD OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 240GB

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

Now check the impendance of the headphone port of the Bose speakers... Perhaps there's an impendance mismatch.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

As EvilDragon said, I think you'll probably just have to get a headphone amp. I had to get one too, in order to drive my AKG K601 headphones loud enough. 

Make sure the volume is set to maximum on the iMac's audio output, although if you hear distortion, lower it until the distortion goes away. I'm not a Mac user, but if there is a setting somewhere to change the signal level of the output (e.g "headphone" vs "line level"), try changing that. (it doesn't mattter what it's currently set to - try the other setting and see if it makes a difference. It is safe to try)   You could also try connecting the headphones directly to the iMac, but I doubt whether it will help much if at all.

EvilDragon wrote:

Now check the impendance of the headphone port of the Bose speakers... Perhaps there's an impendance mismatch.

Even if the impedance is "matched", the drive of the Bose (or the iMac, if the Bose simply passes the signal through)  could just be insufficient for those headphones. Also, the trend seems to be to have a low output impedance for the headphone amp - refer http://nwavguy.blogspot.com.au/2011/02/...dance.html
and
http://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/white-p...amplifiers for example.

Greg.

Last edited by skip (30-05-2014 13:56)

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

I just talked with the Bose support and for company standard they don't release such technical data so I don't know what is the impedance of my Bose Companion Series II speakers.

Perhaps if I connect directly the Sennheiser headphone to the jack output of my iMac should be useful ?

Pianoteq Stage 5.0.1/20140527 - Pianodisc Quiettime Magic Star V. 4.0S - iMac Late 2009 - OSX Mavericks 10.9.3 - 12GB RAM - Intel Core 2 Duo 3.06 GHz - SSD OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 240GB

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

Someone could meanwhile suggest a bunch of headphone amps that suits to my hardware configuration ?

Pianoteq Stage 5.0.1/20140527 - Pianodisc Quiettime Magic Star V. 4.0S - iMac Late 2009 - OSX Mavericks 10.9.3 - 12GB RAM - Intel Core 2 Duo 3.06 GHz - SSD OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 240GB

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

Yep, try plugging the cans in your iMac as well, see what happens.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

Be careful , too loud volume can result in hearing loss.

Many times people push voume too much in phones, because the phone cannot protect against noises of the environment and the music volume have to compete with the environment noise.

Hearing loss it's a probleme that growth a lot in the last decades, and there is no cure, nothing can restore the hearing fraction that was lost. 
"Marvelous" modern medicine (sarcasm mode activated).

Last edited by Beto-Music (30-05-2014 14:08)

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

I'm just watching that Pianoteq has the "Output" setting into the Devices tab in Options window, this point me to make this consideration: if I buy a headphone amplifier (and/or an external sound card, I'm a bit confused!, sorry) that I can connect to my iMac via USB should I use it to hear the sound of the Pianoteq through my HD 598, is it right ?

This way I can bypass the Bose Companion speaker that will remain available to be used by other apps on my iMac and also I shouldn't do in the future the switch off/on of the headphone's jack on the front of the Bose Companion speaker, is it right ?

Pianoteq Stage 5.0.1/20140527 - Pianodisc Quiettime Magic Star V. 4.0S - iMac Late 2009 - OSX Mavericks 10.9.3 - 12GB RAM - Intel Core 2 Duo 3.06 GHz - SSD OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 240GB

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

Something like this one: http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-E10-USB-Head...22+DAC+USB

Pianoteq Stage 5.0.1/20140527 - Pianodisc Quiettime Magic Star V. 4.0S - iMac Late 2009 - OSX Mavericks 10.9.3 - 12GB RAM - Intel Core 2 Duo 3.06 GHz - SSD OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 240GB

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

I have the same headphones and computer as you

I just plug them directly into my iMac and if I set it max volume, I would blow out my ears.

I would avoid using the Bose headphone port because it just introduces latency and low quality circuits into the mix. (Bose tends to over-charge for mediocre speakers)

The HD598's are at the cusp of needing and not-needing a headphone amp. They'll benefit (particularly in the low end) if you have one, but you don't need one. (Anything from FiiOs is good )

EDIT: Side note, if you just got them, you'll need to break them in before they really shine....play music through them at a medium volume for 24-48 hours

EDIT2: Second side note ..... If you ever notice one side sounding rattle-y, then pop off the foam and dust shield (google it, its easy) and you'll probably find a hair in it, carefully remove it with tweezers and problem fixed.

Last edited by njaremko (30-05-2014 19:06)

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

Thank you, i connected the headphone directly to the iMac and in effect the volume is quite higher.

This solve, for now, the issue of the low volume bypassing the Bose speakers.

I'll decide to buy a headphone amp in particular to don't have the need to eject the jack of the headphone's cable from the iMac in order hear the sound through the Bose speaker, I've fear breaking the connector one day...

Please, could you explain me the "If you ever notice one side sounding rattle-y", what does it mean the "rattle-y" term ?

Pianoteq Stage 5.0.1/20140527 - Pianodisc Quiettime Magic Star V. 4.0S - iMac Late 2009 - OSX Mavericks 10.9.3 - 12GB RAM - Intel Core 2 Duo 3.06 GHz - SSD OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 240GB

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

dalrmi wrote:

Thank you, i connected the headphone directly to the iMac and in effect the volume is quite higher.

This solve, for now, the issue of the low volume bypassing the Bose speakers.

I'll decide to buy a headphone amp in particular to don't have the need to eject the jack of the headphone's cable from the iMac in order hear the sound through the Bose speaker, I've fear breaking the connector one day...

Please, could you explain me the "If you ever notice one side sounding rattle-y", what does it mean the "rattle-y" term ?

If at any point you hit a low fortissimo, or listen to music with low frequencies and you notice a sound like it's shaking/rattling in the headphone. It's usually caused by a hair interfering with the driver, I had that happen a few weeks after I bought my headphones, and thought that I blew them......I was relieved when I found the hair

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

Hi, someone could suggest me some models of headphone amp for my phones that could be seen as "output" on my iMac ? I mean connect it through the USB and not via the jack.

So I could select that output in Pianoteq leaving the deafult output for other sounds of apps on the iMac through my Bose speakers connected via the jack.

Thanks.

Pianoteq Stage 5.0.1/20140527 - Pianodisc Quiettime Magic Star V. 4.0S - iMac Late 2009 - OSX Mavericks 10.9.3 - 12GB RAM - Intel Core 2 Duo 3.06 GHz - SSD OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 240GB

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

This one could be ok ?

D1-24-Bit-DAC

Pianoteq Stage 5.0.1/20140527 - Pianodisc Quiettime Magic Star V. 4.0S - iMac Late 2009 - OSX Mavericks 10.9.3 - 12GB RAM - Intel Core 2 Duo 3.06 GHz - SSD OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 240GB

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

I am not a Mac user, but what you seem to be looking for is essentially a USB audio interface. There are several viable options in the range up to 200 dollars, I think, and most of them have built-in headphone amps. I would e.g. also look at the Terrasoniq Phase X64, the Steinberg UR22 or the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, depending on the desired price point.

Pianoteq 6 Standard (Steinway D&B, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Blüthner, K2, YC5, U4, Kremsegg 1&2, Karsten, Electric, Hohner)

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

I'd avoid Terratec, they've kinda sorta abandoned the pro audio world. Drivers are not au pair with other more prominent vendors.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

dalrmi wrote:

This one could be ok ?

D1-24-Bit-DAC

Really can't go wrong with anything made by Audioengine, the D1 is a fantastic DAC/amp and would certainly meet your needs.

You'll need to follow this to get your setup working correctly (outputing audio to multiple audio devices): http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2012/08/ho...-mac-os-x/

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

njaremko wrote:
dalrmi wrote:

This one could be ok ?

D1-24-Bit-DAC

Really can't go wrong with anything made by Audioengine, the D1 is a fantastic DAC/amp and would certainly meet your needs.

You'll need to follow this to get your setup working correctly (outputing audio to multiple audio devices): http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2012/08/ho...-mac-os-x/

Have you used the D1 with Pianoteq? I tried one a few years ago and thought it had too much latency. But it's possible the latency was coming from somewhere else. I did however get better results (for whatever reason) using an Apogee One, even though it's sampling rate is around 45 kHz.

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

kippesc wrote:
njaremko wrote:
dalrmi wrote:

This one could be ok ?

D1-24-Bit-DAC

Really can't go wrong with anything made by Audioengine, the D1 is a fantastic DAC/amp and would certainly meet your needs.

You'll need to follow this to get your setup working correctly (outputing audio to multiple audio devices): http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2012/08/ho...-mac-os-x/

Have you used the D1 with Pianoteq? I tried one a few years ago and thought it had too much latency. But it's possible the latency was coming from somewhere else. I did however get better results (for whatever reason) using an Apogee One, even though it's sampling rate is around 45 kHz.

Now that I think about it, I was connecting the D1 to a Mac using an optical cable. That might be where the latency was coming from. Anybody with more expertise in these matters have a guess?

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

How to know what is the rightest headphone??? The one with more bass, or the one with more trebble?

What about get a real piano, record it, and compare the sound of the recordind listening with a headphone and listening to the real piano?

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

Beto-Music wrote:

How to know what is the rightest headphone???

If one is seeking accuracy, one way would be to compare the sound of the headphones to very good quality studio monitors, in an average listening environment, I guess.

Greg.

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

Beto-Music wrote:

How to know what is the rightest headphone??? The one with more bass, or the one with more trebble?

What about get a real piano, record it, and compare the sound of the recordind listening with a headphone and listening to the real piano?

The problem with that is that the microphones will change the sound too, so you don't know whether it's the mics or the headphones making the difference.

Rachel Jimenez
Classical pianist and teacher
http://fundamentalkeys.com

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

We are in 21 century and stil have problems like this... 

Once a doctor told me that hearing measure tests were changed in the specifications for the measuring chart, cause they found the phones used in 40's (or near that when the chart was created) wasn't able to render correctly the sound.  That's why the hearing tests chart today instead of begin in zero decibels, starts in -3 decibels.

Is there no real responde mics or real response phones?
I can't believe...


PunBB bbcode test


rjpianist wrote:
Beto-Music wrote:

How to know what is the rightest headphone??? The one with more bass, or the one with more trebble?

What about get a real piano, record it, and compare the sound of the recordind listening with a headphone and listening to the real piano?

The problem with that is that the microphones will change the sound too, so you don't know whether it's the mics or the headphones making the difference.

Last edited by Beto-Music (21-06-2014 15:33)

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

All I can tell you is that Rachel is correct. When recording and playing sound, the result is always the 'real' signal modified by a filter function. Mathematically this is called a 'convolution'. Thus, the result is:

'real' signal (X) microphone response (X) AD converter response (X) DA converter response (X) speaker response.

This is always true and will never change; it's basic physics. Ideally the response functions are unity functions, but they are not. Even the AD/DA converter response functions are not unity functions, though they introduce the least distortion. Every physicist will tell you that if you measure something, you will always get a result that is heavily influenced by your measurement and playback equipment... and microphones and speakers are just that.

About the hearing tests: sound is not absolute. The (deci-)bel is a relative unit. Thus, the position of 0dB is arbitrary from a physics standpoint. It is usually chosen to identify the threshold of human hearing, and it is absolutely to be expected that measurements from 70 years ago maybe did not get that point exactly right.

Last edited by kalessin (21-06-2014 17:14)
Pianoteq 6 Standard (Steinway D&B, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Blüthner, K2, YC5, U4, Kremsegg 1&2, Karsten, Electric, Hohner)

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

I said "Ican't believe" as a expression of surprise, and not about doubt her.


Can't be the distortions compensated, equalized???

What about flat response speakers ? Can two models be diffente, in a relevant way, for bass, for example?

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

As an electronics engineer I can tell you, why  on most power amplifiers connecting a low-impedance headphone leads to bad results: most of them have a resistor of a few hundred ohms in series with the output signal, in order to protect against shortcircuits when inserting the phones jack.
This is no problem with high-Z phones ( 300 - 600 ohms), but with low-z types ( 32-50 ohms) this leads to attenuations of some 20 dB.

Itis always wise to read the specs of a headphone amp. many of them deliver only some 50 milliwatts; for somewhat more headroom one needs output levels in the order of 200 milliwatts ( into 32 ohms).

I use the AKG K550 together with the Fiio E11k, which is very reasonably priced.

Re: Sennheiser HD 598

Hi, was looking for headphones to use with Ptq, so, after reading this forum,  I went out to a store to try out a few. I have used Sennheizer HD 202 and they sounded somewhat dull, not clear, something missing. But, Hd 598/600 was too expensive to me, so I tried Grado SR 80i, (as did JR pianist – thank you for advise), and the open back was a good thing. And the naturalness. I bought them and the naturalness and details are good. Using Grado, I hear things with Ptq, that I did not hear before. I am very happy. And they works directly into my CD player and phone, too. For those, who can not afford more costsam headphones, maybe it is worth testing Grado among others.